Reptile & Amphibian Forums

A friend of mine found a Cal king in their home 2 days ago, they are located in an area that has been over built and does not have much room for these animals. I was on my way to pick the king up and relocate it further back in the canyon. When I went to pick the snake up I realized that she is gravid and wanted some opinions on whether or not I should release the snake or keep it and try to hatch the eggs myself and then release her? If the best thing to do is hatch them myself does anyone have any pointers on the process and what will work best... Temp, enclosure, beeding...? This will be the 1st time I have attempted this and I would love for it to be successful, all help would be greatly appreciated.

I would recomend hatching the eggs yourself. Translocating a snake in the wild is very stressfull and I personally doubt she would be able to lay successfully, if she even survives herself. If you decide to keep her till after she lays you should probobly get a book or two, or at least search these forums for more info. Just some quick suggestions...

Give her a temp range from room temp, ideally around 70F, up to 90-95F. Give her a dark snug hide at both extremes. In the middle provide her with a laying box. This should be dark (solid colored), and nearly full with a humid laying medium like spagnum moss. She will probobly lay in there. Eggs should be incubated at around 80F. Hope this helps, but you should really seek more thorough info.

cheers

Zach is right. Relocated snakes do not do well. Research shows they often die. There are also laws against relocation in most states. The best thing would be to release the snake in the yard it was found in, or if it is too overdeveloped like you say, try to care for the snake and eggs yourself. Of course there are laws regulating the collecting of wild snakes, but if they're on private property I don't thiink those laws apply.

Greg

> Of course there are laws regulating the collecting of wild
> snakes, but if they're on private property I don't thiink those
> laws apply.

I was told that they do. A fishing license (in California) is required to collect any reptile, private or public property, except when moving the reptile immediately out of harms way (IE you do not need a fishing license to move a snake stretched out on a road to the side of the road).

Interesting. Even on your own property? Seems like you can bulldoze all kinds of habitat on your property with no permission. These laws make no sense. I'm assuming the person that posted this thread is in Ca, but the range of californiae extends into AZ, NV, OR

Property lines do not stop laws. If you kill someone on your property, it's still murder. Sadly, you CAN bulldoze habitat with no reprocussions. The laws are definately messed up.
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1.1.2 Python regius
0.0.1 Eunectes notaeus
0.0.1 Lampropeltis spp.
5.0.0 Ambystoma mexicanum
1.3.0 Triturus karelinii
1.3.0 Taricha granulosa
0.3.0 Ambystoma jeffersonianum
0.0.3 Salamandra salamandra
0.0.1 Tylototriton verrucosus
1.0.0 Grammastola cala
1.0.0 Homo sapiens 'Hottie'

> Sadly, you CAN bulldoze habitat with no reprocussions.

Actually - it depends upon your zoning and other factors.

One thing I did as a hobby in the Bay Area was look for places where the California Red Legged frog still had a population - when I found them, I reported them to fish and game, because they are a species protected by California law, so if the population was on someones private property, the population would be known when permits were requested to do things that could destroy the habitat.

I have no idea if any of the populations I found were not already known or not, I never got any response other than a thank you for the report.

But any kind of major construction does require an environmental impact report. Unfortunately, unless there is a protected species, usually its easy to get the permit - even if the species is in trouble in the local area.

The Bureau of Land Management though does do a nice job of making sure that is at least some land in most parts of the state that are not built on, which I guess is a good compromise between wild habitat and the need for human housing.

Of course the law doesn't stop at property lines. But, you may do certain things on your own property that you may not do on public property or another person's private property, like cut down a tree. Funky Res is right that you need an environmental impact statement to do construction, and that that permission to build is easy to get if you can prove there are no protected species present. Non-protected species (the majority) are open to destruction. California law also allows for the death of animals as a part of legal logging and agricultural activities. The facts are that game and fish and other groups like to blame herpers for the decline of reptile populations when pollution and habitat destruction are much, much, much bigger problems.

Now a question for Funky Res. You mentioned that you released a snake that you had caught. In AZ, where I lived until a few weeks ago, it is illegal to release any snake (even wild collected) to the wild. Many states have this law. Does CA?

> Now a question for Funky Res. You mentioned that you released a
> snake that you had caught. In AZ, where I lived until a few weeks
> ago, it is illegal to release any snake (even wild collected) to
> the wild. Many states have this law. Does CA?

Yes. Technically what I did was illegal.
The primary reason for the law is two-fold - it prevents a reptile from being released in a new location where it will likely die, and it prevents the possible introduction of non native parasites.

I released it in the exact location where I collected it, and I always quarantine any new herptile (WC or purchased). I always wash my hands between handling different specimens, etc.

So yes - it was illegal for me to release it, but I don't feel bad about doing so since I did so fairly close to the time he was collected from the wild, in the same location, had it quarantined, and released it in the evening when it had cooled down a bit outside (often when they are out anyway).

I do a similar thing with western fence lizards - which breed in my yard. Sometimes I'll catch one and keep it for a few days and release it - and they continue to do fine when released into their old territory, though occasionally a new lizard has moved in and there is a brief turf war.

Again - technically against the letter of the law. But I don't feel bad about it.

I also sometimes cross the street when the light is red if no cars are coming, and I don't always use the cross walk.

I would never release a captive reptile unless I could do so exactly where I collected it and I only had it for a short period of time.

> A friend of mine found a Cal king in their home 2 days ago, they > are located in an area that has been over built and does not have > much room for these animals. I was on my way to pick the king up > and relocate it further back in the canyon.

No. Don't.
If an animal is to be released, it should be released precisely where it was collected.

If it was collected in an area of habitat destruction, it should not be released at all.

My large king (a male) came from such a location.
I caught another good sized male about two weeks ago. I thought it was a female, but I ordered a set of sex probes and it was definitely a male. Since bag limit is four and I have three, I decided to release it (if I'm to get another wild, it will be a female).

I released it where I found it. It was quite interesting to watch. It crawled into the grass, flicked its toungue around, then lifted its head up about six inches to take a look around (something I've only previously seen racers do) and then determined a path and slowly slithered away towards some brush, probably brush it was familiar with.

Try to hatch the eggs. Note that for gravid females, fish and game (assuming you are in California) requires that you get back down to bag level (four) within 45 days of hatching - but you can't release the young (legally anyway).

Thanks for all the great help, it is very appreciated.

If you have never nested a king or hatched eggs, your best bet is to release the snake as close to where it was found.

Normally wild snakes lay eggs without much stress, in captivity, they normally hold their eggs until nearly dead. This includes most breeders as well.

So most likely you will further stress the female then release it, away from what it knows. You are far better off, just cutting its head off. I know that sounds mean, but its a decision of a quick death vs. a torturous death.

consider kingsnakes do not need much space to live their lifes. They are often very common in greenbelts between houses. These are normally only a few yards wide. They are also very common between ag. fields and roads, again only small areas. That she is gravid means there are more where she was. Put her back, that is her best change, even if it does not sound so good. Consider, these areas around houses lack big predators and have a constant supply of food(house mice, sparrows, etc)Cheers

I've had several wild caught gravid snakes, never had a wild gravid snake become eggbound or die while laying.

If she is really gravid, an adequate sized cage with a nesting box should be fine. The eggs can be incubated fairly easily, I've never tried ambient incubation but it seems some people have had success with California Kings by putting the eggs in a warm spot of the house w/o any additional heating.

If the location is really under habitat destruction, the mother and the young probably are better off in captivity.

Its not about you, its about this other person. Who said, they did not have any experience, with nesting, hatching or incubation. In that case, release the female.

They also did not covey any interest in keeping the babies or to see what would hatch out. In otherwords, it seemed they only interest was returning the snake to the best chances of survival.

About your reply, if you only consider eggbinding as a poor nesting, then you have very little understanding of reptile nesting. Eggbinding is the extreme catastrophic event. Its not the first sign of stress, its a baseball bat to your head. Between eggbinding and a good nesting is a million levels of success and failure.

For instance, in my humble experience, a good nesting is, when a female lays quickly after shedding, normally within days or the next day. She does not look skinny or dehydrated and feeds immediately after laying. Natural reproduction causes very little impact on healthy snakes. Consider, its part of their normal natural tasks. They do it year after year after year. It should not cause adverse health, unless something is wrong.

That you do not understand such things really reflects on your understanding. Consider, with everything, there is failure to perfect, and a million steps inbetween. And that includes nesting. Its with everything, only the naive think its one way or the other.

Also consider, I am not saying your not smart or anything, its all about experience, In my life, I have experienced many thousand nestings of many kinds of reptiles. Both in captivity and nature. If I think back to when I had only experienced a few hundred or even a thousand, I was very limited in my understanding. I was naive then.

But the real point here is, I was not talking or making recomendations to you. If I was, I would consider your experience and recomend something different. Cheers

> Its not about you, its about this other person. Who said, they
> did not have any experience, with nesting, hatching or
> incubation. In that case, release the female.

OK. Point taken.
I just think that if it is a victim habitat destruction as described, the result is not going to be good for the snake - the OP just won't see it.