Reptile & Amphibian Forums

These girls are both due in about 2 months, the one in the in the 6 ft. neodesha is 10.5 ft. and the one in the 8ft. cage is 9.5. They are both actually above average for the Suriname Locality. Their water container (A Jumbo Litter Pan) can reference their size.
Even though I know that there will be some screamers born, the sad reality is that the clientele of "Locality Redtails" want animals none representative to their true form. We see shipments sent in, time and time again, of the best Suriname and Guyana have to offer. We can honestly say that maybe 1 in 40 will find a place in a collection and 1 in 400 will find a place on this forum. That is what the main problem with most of the so-called "locality specific guys" on this forum.
The animals that are picked to display the "true example" are really the best of the best. We have seen so many animals that came right out of the country that do not have any place to go because the are not "the best." None-the-less, they are still bringing new, pure, strong bloodlines that should and need to be brought into the breeding projects. These animals may be "ugly" to you picture posters, but to us they can be a much better of an example of the form. On a closing note if you want to preach locality then you need to be accepting of the true examples of the form otherwise you have no grounds to stand to criticize others for the route they choose to take in their breeding projects.

PLEASE FEEL FREE TO FOLLOW UP WITH ANIMALS THAT YOU ARE PROUD OF EVEN IF THE AREN'T THE BEST AND MAYBE SOME TRUE REPRESENTATION FOR THE LOCALITY GUYS TO SEE.

Thanks for looking at our thoughts.
CFRB

Central Florida Reptile Breeders

Best of luck with the babies.
John

the so-called "ugly boas" why is there such a price difference? Why not charge the same for a very normal looking BCC as you do for an exceptional animal ? We all know that you are paying per animal and occasionally a few pennies more for something unusal, so why not price them accordingly? Why charge P0 more for an exceptional animal if it has the same potential as an ugly one? Your agument doesn't hold water... if you wanna sell more ugly boas, price them like imports, not 800 bucks for a fresh off the boat tick scarred skinny boa. It's natural instinct for anybody to buy the best looking animal they can buy based on his or her tastes, and that is what is represented in collections. If the wildcaught boas are not holding their own against the imports, maybe it is time to stop importing boas!
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"If woody would of went to the police, none of this would have ever happened!"

True localities, morphs, and any reptile has to maintain a higher monitary value to be of interest to most hobbyest. You have to keep the prices high enough to keep the interest of the people who want them around forever. If the price drops down people will be more likely to let the animal drop down. If people can not cover the expences of caring for the animals by selling there offspring. There will be no need to reproduce, therfore the lines will be lost. Just think, you pay $20,000 for a new car, now you spend every weekend washing it, you park it further away from the place you are going. You are protecting it because it is an investment. Now if that was a $100 beatup pinto the story might be differant. Just look at the green iguana, we pay $1.50 each for them, the pet shop sells it for $10 or less. What is $10 to you? Almost an hours work? Not much. Now you pay $800 for a suriname, the story changes again. We do not sell all of our boas for $800, but still try to maintain their high value for respect of the species.
I am not putting anyone down. We like the really nice ones too. We just don't think that the really nice ones are a true representation of all the animals you would find while muddin' through the jungle.
We know that there are true locality guys that do not post or no longer read this forum because of the misrepresintation of the species that they have dedicated their lives to.
There is nothing wrong with being proud of the exceptional animals that you have. We just would like people to bring up pick of the rest, without getting beef from everyone.

CE, please do not take offence to this, it is ment for everyone. We think you have great pics of great animals.

Rob

P.S. Buisness is Buisness, if the pretty ones sell fast and for more, go with it.
Central Florida Reptile Breeders

the jungle or a zoo. People are buying what appeals to them regardless of what anybody else thinks. Pretty to me may be ugly to you, the wildtype has nothing to do with it. Even the people who are breeding for exact locality are making some choices as to which animals are paired up, that in itself makes the offspring man made and different from the wild type. There is no simple answer to any of the questions asked... they are all man made boas raised in sterile environments with NO natural selection taking place. I consider any selective breeder of animals an artist because he is placing two animals together that would otherwise probably never meet to produce what he finds appealing, this is no different from breeding mutts as neither animal will ever be released in to the wild. The bottom line is people want pretty boas regardless if they are the work of mother nature or the work of joe-breeder in his basement. If you are fascinated with the wild-type .. then leave them in the jungle. If you want to see them take a trip to the basin or if your cheap...go to the zoo
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"If woody would of went to the police, none of this would have ever happened!"

Well Rob,
It just does not seem that I am in an agreeable mood and although I can see the points both of you are trying to make, I feel that they are just misrepresented.
I would not ever price and animal base on the need to emphasize it’s importance to someone. I really don’t believe that works. That, if a person is going to not care for an animal he will do it regardless of the cost of the animal because he/she is simply lacking the knowledge, respect, or simple moral integrity needed to properly care for the animal’s welfare.
As well as raising top end Morph Boas, I also raise corn Snakes of all morphs. The cost of one of my most elaborate Corn Morphs (as a baby) does not come close to even the cost of one of my Normal Boa Constrictors BCI. It does not mean that I will not relay the importance of the snake to the buyer equally or care for them as best I can in each case.
The price is simply driven by the market, If I felt that I could get $300.00 for each baby corn I produced, I would charge that, however I can’t and don’t. It is not because the animal is less important to me.
As far as the poor $1.50 iguana, he is sadly the replacement of the dime store turtle and thousands of them die each year due to poor education and poor sales tactics, however I doubt that there survival rate is much different (percentage wise) then any other species that is just as demanding in it’s care, regardless of it’s cost.
Thanks
Jim Hopkins

Well Charles,
I hate disagreeing with a person who, in general, holds the same thoughts on the subject as I do, but on this point I have to.
To say to price all the same locality Boas equally is the same as saying price all Toyotas the same because they all come from Japan? It is just not sensible. Even though it seems that most of us are breeders, I guarantee that there are many more keepers then there are breeders out there. The breeding community is a few thousand of us, maybe even as many as ten thousand people in the US breeding snakes, but I would put money on nearly 1,000,000 (one Million) of the folks in the US keep snakes/reptiles as pets.
So, although that skinny, tick scared, parasite infested imported boa, may have a large genetic value to a breeder an no real value in the pet market, conversely, the same may hold true of a Great looking Redtail that has been breed back to it’s own “pure line” several times already. It is of no real value to the breeder due to the shallow gene pool, but is the perfect eye catching display animal for the pet trade.
Seeing that they are many times more then need for pet trade animals then there are the need for breeder animals, the Pet Trade top looking animals will demand a higher price, simply based on the supply and demand formula of current economic measurement. So Gus’s good looking Locality Boas will always demand a higher price then any sub-par looking animals he might produce due to the fact that the demand is higher for them.
As Hermann pointed out in an earlier post, there is nothing wrong with making money on the animals that you produce, after all the work and effort is put into them, there is not shame in reaping a bit of benefit for it, it is after all the American (and European Union for our overseas folks) way.
Thanks
Jim Hopkins

The wise old saying proves true once again only this time for ugly boas.

NP

.. misinformed about the locallity ethic. It is a fact that many people choose boas for pets or potential breeders exactly as you say, some of those same people also claim to be locality purists. They are not...

Both Hermann, myself and at least one other person have posted here about the responsibility to keep the genetics in a particular goup as broad as possible by breeding for all the traits, not just a 'clean' boa, or a 'big tail' or whatever. WE TOOK OUR LUMPS FOR IT TOO.. I myself continue to pair boas from within the locality that are as far apart in overall looks as I have available.. and you are right, some of those babies will not be in demand due to some people's narrow, uninformed, idea of what is or is not a pretty boa.

2nd or 3rd generation locality Surinames inbred for a specific look or trait are almost as much a 'product' as any intergrade out there..

This is just my opinion..

Gus