Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was just throwing around some ideas for durable interiors for the cages and I got to thinking, wouldnt the countertop laminates be a good interior for the cages. They come in many different designs/colors and seem like they would be pretty durable, seeing as how they can hold up to the normal wear and tear of kitchen life. Would this be okay? Haqs anyone tried this?
Also, there is a company that sells the vinyl film for pretty cheap. I'm not sure if it would be the best stuff but I just remember you saying that it could get pretty expensive having to buy it in bulk only.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Avery-Vinyl-Cutter-Plotter-15-x-10yd-Beige-Tholonet_W0QQitemZ7631312028QQihZ017QQcategoryZ46741QQcmdZViewItem
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1.1.1 breeding pair blue tongue skinks w/ juv. offspring
1.0.0 Juv. Albino Bullfrog
0.0.2 Giant Pixie Frog (one juv. and one adult)
1.1.0 Clawed frogs
1.1.0 Albino Clawed frogs
0.0.1 Superlight juv Sulcatta
0.0.2 Fly river turtles
0.0.2 Savannah Monitors (one pastel)
0.2.0 juv pastel Columbian boas
1.1.0 monster pink pastel columbian boas
1.2.0 Hypo Hog boas
1.0.0 Hypo boa
1.1.0 Hypo boa babies, Poss. DH sunglow
0.2.0 Hypo poss. DH sunglow
1.0.0 Coral albino boa (my baby)
and
1.2.0 Pomeranians (the wifes babies)

Formica and other high pressure laminates (HPL) work quite well for cage interiors and come in a nice variety of colors and patterns. They can be expensive, however, so it might be worth it to find a local counter-top shop and see if you can buy scrap or damaged pieces. It's pretty durable stuff but if that thin plastic layer is compromised in any way and water gets into the cardboard backing you'll have problems. So you'll need to be somewhat careful with it and I would not use it for monitors or other scratching lizards.

The vinyl you found seems to be a decent deal, especially since you can buy it in smaller quantity. I got mine for 26 cents per square foot but had to by a 30" x 150' roll. Yours will be about twice that much per square foot but I think that's fine given you won't have all the extra. A wider roll would be ideal for avoiding seams but that won't matter much.

The plastic layer of vinyl film is actually about as thick, possibly even a bit thicker, than the plastic layer of HPL. VF is also easier to install and is repairable, unlike HPL. But the color choices are not as great and the color is a lot glossier than HPL.

It's a tough call. If I could find a formica in a color or pattern I liked for cheap I would go with that and just take some care not to gouge the plastic layer. But the vinyl film is easy to install and repair so it's worth considering as well.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

Thanks for your help.... again. im kinda debating on what to use for the interior. I do home improvement on the side and know someone who does counter refinishing. I will check with him on good deals. If I cant get it at a good price, I will prob go with the vinyl. Where did you purchase your vinyl from? and how much did it run for the roll? It would be nice to have the 30" to avoid seams. I would prob ending up using it all seeing as how I have so many cages to build and will prob screw up somewhere along the way.
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1.1.1 breeding pair blue tongue skinks w/ juv. offspring
1.0.0 Juv. Albino Bullfrog
0.0.2 Giant Pixie Frog (one juv. and one adult)
1.1.0 Clawed frogs
1.1.0 Albino Clawed frogs
0.0.1 Superlight juv Sulcatta
0.0.2 Fly river turtles
0.0.2 Savannah Monitors (one pastel)
0.2.0 juv pastel Columbian boas
1.1.0 monster pink pastel columbian boas
1.2.0 Hypo Hog boas
1.0.0 Hypo boa
1.1.0 Hypo boa babies, Poss. DH sunglow
0.2.0 Hypo poss. DH sunglow
1.0.0 Coral albino boa (my baby)
and
1.2.0 Pomeranians (the wifes babies)

I purchased my roll from beacon graphics. It was a bit under $100. No shipping fees with the special I got.

With hindsight I wish I had ordered several smaller rolls, although I've barely used the stuff.

If you do use practice applying scraps. You can spray down a bit of water and then squeegee all of the bubbles out or trim the edges down to size. This is what I like the best about it.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

so you use the vinyl in yours? If I do the vinyl or even the HPL for that matter on the inside, do I stain the interior first as I do the outside or do I leave the wood bare. I think I remember big hurt saying to stain the entire cage and then apply the interior. Wouldn't this limit some of the adhesion as the wood is sealed? And also, does it matter what I stain the exterior with if I am going to line the interior? thanks again and sorry for so many q's.... Jon
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1.1.1 breeding pair blue tongue skinks w/ juv. offspring
1.0.0 Juv. Albino Bullfrog
0.0.2 Giant Pixie Frog (one juv. and one adult)
1.1.0 Clawed frogs
1.1.0 Albino Clawed frogs
0.0.1 Superlight juv Sulcatta
0.0.2 Fly river turtles
0.0.2 Savannah Monitors (one pastel)
0.2.0 juv pastel Columbian boas
1.1.0 monster pink pastel columbian boas
1.2.0 Hypo Hog boas
1.0.0 Hypo boa
1.1.0 Hypo boa babies, Poss. DH sunglow
0.2.0 Hypo poss. DH sunglow
1.0.0 Coral albino boa (my baby)
and
1.2.0 Pomeranians (the wifes babies)

I have not heavily tested the vinyl film, although I have placed it on the back of a face frame and run some durability tests.

What I can say with some certainty is that VF, even the cheaper stuff you found online, is much more durable, moisture resistant and easier to apply than the Contact Paper that used to be readily available and used in cages (especially Green Tree Pythons). I know of MDF cages sealed with Contact Paper that have held moist substrate for over ten years now.

Unfortunately the contact paper you buy today is nothing like what was available back then. Regardless, the VF is even better so I believe you can count on a long term cage provided you make sure the edges stay silicones.

I think Bighurt was saying to seal the cage, not stain it before applying the vinyl film. It does adhere better to sealed plywood. You can pretty much use anything you have to seal the wood. I would use a water or latex based product for a sealer.

Laminate, on the other hand, is usually applied with contact cement. No need to seal the wood first.

Since you know someone in the counter top business I would really look into the formica. Do you have a router? Really helps with installation.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

I believe I will be going with the formica. I do not own a router but I have a friend at the department that has all the tools needed and then some and a massive amount of bits and has agreed to help me build the cages. seeing as how we only work every third day, we have a lot of time on our hands. Between the two of us, I think we might be able to build some pretty good cages.
Also, I noticed that with texas heat as it is, when I used a ceramic heat emmitter on one of my cages in my reptile room once, it heated the entire room. I know I need to establish temp gradients, but how do I do that with it being so hot as it is already down here without just warming up the entire room. After that, so far I have just used the uth's as they provide warmth to the limited area alone and not the whole room. It seems to me that a RHP would also heat up the entire cage and possibly the room which I really dont need. Again I am assuming as I dont own one yet, what do you think? thanks.... Jon Runde
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1.1.1 breeding pair blue tongue skinks w/ juv. offspring
1.0.0 Juv. Albino Bullfrog
0.0.2 Giant Pixie Frog (one juv. and one adult)
1.1.0 Clawed frogs
1.1.0 Albino Clawed frogs
0.0.1 Superlight juv Sulcatta
0.0.2 Fly river turtles
0.0.2 Savannah Monitors (one pastel)
0.2.0 juv pastel Columbian boas
1.1.0 monster pink pastel columbian boas
1.2.0 Hypo Hog boas
1.0.0 Hypo boa
1.1.0 Hypo boa babies, Poss. DH sunglow
0.2.0 Hypo poss. DH sunglow
1.0.0 Coral albino boa (my baby)
and
1.2.0 Pomeranians (the wifes babies)

I think you're making a good choice going with formica given your contact. There are some formicas out there that I think would look fantastic in reptile cages.

Ceramic heat emitters do give off a lot of residual heat and this can be a problem. Onc nice thing about RHP's is that they are heavily insulated and the side opposite to the heating element is usually about room temperature.

Also, the surface temp of a CHE is very hot. A 60 watt CHE will burn through even a potholder nearly instantly (I learned the hard way many years ago).

A RHP does not get as hot. You can touch and leave your hand on a RHP and not get burned. Totally different from a CHE although they both produce similar wavelengths of infared heat.

With the formica, what would be better? do I
A) formica all individual interior peices, router out the dado cuts and then construct the cage
or
B) dado cut and construct the cage and then apply the formica to the interior.
Option A seems to be easier as I could router the edges flush instead of having to cut to fit the interior laminate and hoping its exact.
Also, bighurt mentioned a place called pro products for the rhp's. where do you get your rhp's from, same place? Sorry for all the q's. I almost got everything down and I'll quit, I promise=)
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1.1.1 breeding pair blue tongue skinks w/ juv. offspring
1.0.0 Juv. Albino Bullfrog
0.0.2 Giant Pixie Frog (one juv. and one adult)
1.1.0 Clawed frogs
1.1.0 Albino Clawed frogs
0.0.1 Superlight juv Sulcatta
0.0.2 Fly river turtles
0.0.2 Savannah Monitors (one pastel)
0.2.0 juv pastel Columbian boas
1.1.0 monster pink pastel columbian boas
1.2.0 Hypo Hog boas
1.0.0 Hypo boa
1.1.0 Hypo boa babies, Poss. DH sunglow
0.2.0 Hypo poss. DH sunglow
1.0.0 Coral albino boa (my baby)
and
1.2.0 Pomeranians (the wifes babies)

I think A is better than B. Pro Products is what I would choose.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

cages and they have help up quite well. In several of my first cages (early '90's) I bought the countertop pieces from home depot, the actual kitchen countertop ones and cut them to size. Those held up fairly well but when the seam failed, the particle board underneath swelled. For all my more recent cages (late '90's and '00's) I used the laminate on plywood. None of those have failed including the one pictured below which is 10 plus years old now. It has laminate on floor only, my subsequent cages are formica'd on all interior plywood surfaces. These cages are used for BRB's, high humidity!

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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
10.22 BRB
10.15 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

thanks for your reply. I believe I am going to go with the formica, especially if the surface has lasted you that long. How well is the all formica interiors holding up? When you built them, Did you formica the individual peices and then build the cage or did you just cut to fit the interior? What did you use to adhere the formica, just contact cement? thanks for the help.... Jon Runde
-----
1.1.1 breeding pair blue tongue skinks w/ juv. offspring
1.0.0 Juv. Albino Bullfrog
0.0.2 Giant Pixie Frog (one juv. and one adult)
1.1.0 Clawed frogs
1.1.0 Albino Clawed frogs
0.0.1 Superlight juv Sulcatta
0.0.2 Fly river turtles
0.0.2 Savannah Monitors (one pastel)
0.2.0 juv pastel Columbian boas
1.1.0 monster pink pastel columbian boas
1.2.0 Hypo Hog boas
1.0.0 Hypo boa
1.1.0 Hypo boa babies, Poss. DH sunglow
0.2.0 Hypo poss. DH sunglow
1.0.0 Coral albino boa (my baby)
and
1.2.0 Pomeranians (the wifes babies)

Hey Jon, the formica is 100% still intact. a bit of staining from newsprint but still fully sealing the floor and (in the second cage) walls. Another trick I use is to cut the paper floor liner oversize so it rides up an inch or two on the sides. They always seem to like to deposit feces and urates along a wall. With the paper up the side a bit, all is deposited on paper.

I used water based contact cement and laminated the individual pieces. Prior to cutting and slots or dadoes. With contact cement would be very hard to cement after assembly, that stuff is nasty and will latch on crooked if your not careful!!

Watch your temps, the contact cement won't work well in the cold.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
10.22 BRB
10.15 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

thanks for the reply. I dont think I have to worry about the cold, im in texas. its averageing about 95 right now... Jon Runde
-----
1.1.1 breeding pair blue tongue skinks w/ juv. offspring
1.0.0 Juv. Albino Bullfrog
0.0.2 Giant Pixie Frog (one juv. and one adult)
1.1.0 Clawed frogs
1.1.0 Albino Clawed frogs
0.0.1 Superlight juv Sulcatta
0.0.2 Fly river turtles
0.0.2 Savannah Monitors (one pastel)
0.2.0 juv pastel Columbian boas
1.1.0 monster pink pastel columbian boas
1.2.0 Hypo Hog boas
1.0.0 Hypo boa
1.1.0 Hypo boa babies, Poss. DH sunglow
0.2.0 Hypo poss. DH sunglow
1.0.0 Coral albino boa (my baby)
and
1.2.0 Pomeranians (the wifes babies)