Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've noticed a lot of people from NJ on here and other sites advertising turtles for sale, and showing pictures of their pets and such. Many of them are of turtles that are not only native to NJ, but also are protected in the state. I grew up in NJ, and they wanted to treat me like a malicious criminal when they found out that I was rescueing and rehabbing turtles. Granted, I had no permits...I didn't even know that I needed them. I was young at the time. Has NJ changed its laws? I tried to get permits back in the 80's, and I was shot down with impunity.

Gemsofnewjersey, I know that you have some sort of permits. I surfed your website (magnificent by the way). Can you really buy and sell Wood turtles in NJ? I've seen a guy in Princeton asking for NA Wood turtles to buy. Dragoncjo, I know that you live in NJ also and are a box turtle nut. There's a guy on Faunaclassifieds selling box turtles at least once a month. They appear to be wild caught, but there's really no way to know. What's the deal with that??

I'm just an old jersey boy wondering what's happening up there. I know that PA has "changed" its laws to allow very limited possession of even Wood turtles. Has NJ done the same?

Here's what I could find on the status of box turtles in NJ:

They are listed as a Species of Special Concern.

Commercial collection is not allowed.

Collection for personal use is not allowed.

Here's a link to Bill's Box Turtles: I'm not sure how up-to-date the information is.
Link

Thanks Steph. I've read that one before also. I still can't find anywhere that you can get a permit to sell them.

"I still can't find anywhere that you can get a permit to sell them."

My understanding is that you can't (at least not turtles WC in NJ). I believe that's what is meant by commercial collection.

There may be other rules and regulations governing the purchase and sale of box turtles originating from states other than NJ.

I know in some states you are allowed to sell native turtles out of that states limits but not within the state, I can't remember in jersey is one of those states or not though
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"My understanding is that you can't (at least not turtles WC in NJ). I believe that's what is meant by commercial collection."

Some states differentiate between commercial collection and private sale, WC or CB. For instance, they may not allow you to go out and collect turtles specifically for the purpose of selling them. However, if you have turtles that are considered personal pets you can sell or trade them. It doesn't matter if they're WC or CB. An example would be Spotted turtles in SC. They don't allow commercial collection or permits for that purpose. But, if you have some in your collection (9 without permit, over 9 requires permit), you can sell or trade them. I believe that you must obtain a permit to do so though.

My understanding was that NJ didn't allow any sort of sale at all, permit or not, WC or CB, native or non-native. I've read that they've changed the possession permits, but it still seems illegal to sell them.

I guess my question is simply, "In NJ, can you get a permit to sell turtles? If you can, do they have to be CB, non-native, etc?"

Ken,
I e-mailed you off list.

Ken, I have a few turtles which I inherited from my grandfather when he died. It was his wish for me to take good care of them. I have no permits, have never attempted to get them, and acquired them so long ago so I don't feel like I'm doing anything wrong. I'm strictly against collecting, and feel bad that I have the turtles I do. I'm doing my best to take great care of them as a promise to my grandpop. I hate going on faunaclassifieds, there is a guy selling wild caughts from new jersey? Hearing stuff like wild caughts being removed from my home state really bothers me. Hopefully no one finds my spots.
Chris

Yup, that's the one I was talking about on Faunaclassifieds. He doesn't come out and say WC, but come on!

I hope you don't think I was being accusatory. I know that you can definitely get a possession permit in the state. It's just that I've been glancing at these sites for about 2 years now, and it seems like out of the blue people from NJ are starting to sell turtles. I wondered if the regs had changed.

I'm sorry, Steph, I never received it. I've tried replying to people who sent me private messages, and it hasn't worked a few times. Maybe it's my email account.

I've got e-mails in to a couple of officials in NJ, so hopefully I'll get some sort of clarification about NJ rules and regs.

Gee, Steph, you didn't have to go through all of that trouble, especially since I've called and emailed them to no avail. Maybe you'll have better luck. They aren't exactly "user-friendly".

Ken, did not think you were accusing me of anything. I just wanted to throw it out there as to why I have the turtles I do. I've asked people before who are selling turtles(spotteds, woods, boxies, western ponds, etc) how they get away with it. The response they give me is that they are allowed to sell out of state. One guy I emailed had a wholesalers permit, and was fully liscensed. How he went about it, I have no clue. I've always known new jersey to be extremely anal about having turtles ever since I was a little kid. I still don't know how people in new jersey can have threatened and endangered species in there collection, I thought that was illegal no matter what.

No trouble, I thought you raised some interesting points and I wanted some clarification, too. I wish some of these regulations were a little more uniform from state to state. I really really wish DNR-type websites were easier to navigate, too!!

It appears that the information available on Bill's Box Turtles regarding NJ laws is fundamentally correct, then, based on Phil's and Frank's comments.

What remains unclear is whether or not the persons we see advertising here and there on the web are in compliance with NJ laws.

From what I understand about the NJ laws on turtles and permits,
you need a permit to keep any native species. You must show proof that they were obtained out of state(sales receipt). You may buy or sell out of state but not within the state.
I also believe you can give away within the state.
Also I believe you are not supposed to be breeding in captivity.
Correct me if I'm wrong, if anyone else knows more specifics.
Phil

breed in captivity.

You can breed your animals in captivity, but in order to sell them in the state you must possess a Commercial Permit (100.00)
Also you must give the state access and pay for yearly inspections. You can breed your animals on a Hobbyist Permit but can not sell them in the state, you can sell them out of state however. All the other things you posted are correct.
You can have Turtles on your permit, but they must be purchased out of NJ and you must have proof (receipt) of their legal acquisition out of the state.
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Frank Roberts
R&R Herpetological Frank Roberts & John Rodriguez

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Roberts'Realm of Reptile Research

Thanks, guys!

Yes, thank you. This has all been very interesting. Boy, they've really woven quite an elaborate system up there.

As a whole, you are not allowed by any means to collect wild turtles in New Jersey. NJ is very protective over it's wildlife and while I do not feel that they do enough, they do have strict laws.

In this state you can own for hobby purposes, scientific holding purposes, and wholesale purposes any native emydid species of turtle excluding the Bog Turtle (Glytemys muhlenbergii)due to it's endangered status here. You MUST, however show proof that the animal was obtained legally and not in the state (NJ). The sale of chelonians in NJ is strictly forbidden and there are no exceptions. You can give them away to friends and family as long as it is not commercial. I obtained almost ALL of my animals in 1999 from my Grandfather. He resided in Florida at the time and was unable to care for them any longer. After several letters and correspondences with NJ Fish and Wildlife, they granted me permission to keep North American Wood(Glyptemys insculpta), Spotted(Clemmys guttata), Eastern Box(Terrapene carolina carolina), Eastern Mud(Kinosternon subrubrum subrubrum), and Northern Diamondback Terrapins(Malaclemys terrapin terrapin). The animals were handed down to me and since have been in my care. I speak to Monica Mirranda of Fish&Wildlife a few times a year when something needs to be added, or to make sure I am up to date. All permits expire on December 31st of every year and renewals must be in on time with any changes or you will be subject to fines and penalties.

You are allowed to breed your turtles/tortoises in this state, but they strongly reccomend you have plans for the offspring well before they hatch. Again the sale of these animals is completely illegal in this state, but you may sell them out of state providing the buyer follows their own state regulations. If you have no plans for your baby turtles, they simply suggest that you keep sexes separate to avoid breeding. Every year I hold back certain specimens in each of my groups and add them to my permit accordingly. This way it is never necessary for me purchase potentially wild caught animals from dealers or "breeders". By adding your own offspring to your existing colonies you are safely and legally prolonging the breeding group for generations.

There are two species of turtles that may be kept in NJ WITHOUT any permit and those two are the Eastern Pained Turtle (Chrysemys picta picta) and the Common Snapping Turtle (Chelydra serpentina serpentina). Once again you cannot wild collect them. They can be obtained other ways hopefully captive bred specimens and kept legally.

Wholesale permits to sell your turtles are available as well as Scientific Holding Permits through NJ Fish&Wildlife but they are more expensive than the average Hobby permit for $10 a year with unlimited animals being added to it.

All permit holders are subject to fines and other consequences if a law or reg. is broken and all keepers, breeders, sellers, are subject to inspections of their animals by Fish and Game officers. Sometimes they do send people out to make sure you are doing what you say you are, I personally feel they should do it several times a year. I know a few people who have been fined and it is not cheap. I even know a couple of people who have had their turtles taken from them.

NJ is strict but not hard to follow, make sure you respect what they say and you can keep and even breed these wonderful animals for years to come. Just please do not wild collect, even our abundant species are dissapearing now. Just this past week we counted 151 predated Terrapin nests, 211 road killed Terrapins and 9 road killed Eastern Box Turtles. It's sad to see and even hear about it but there are good people out there doing what they can. I look at my animals in my yard everyday for hours and I'm glad to know they are safe....unfortunatley some out there just aren't.

Hope this helps
-Chris
http://community.webshots.com/user/loon1103