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I sure would like to know the details about this one.... Everyone who thinks a Copperhead bite is no big deal, think twice.

Copperhead fatality

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Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.

Yeah, I would be fascinated to learn the details of this. One thing that comes to mind is the possibility that the "bite on the ankle" was right into a vein. Sad news though--when you have survived being gunned down in a rice paddy in Vietnam, you don't expect to die from a copperhead bite.

I read in a book written by mark oshea that only 2 people have died from copperhead bites in "recent times". Now obviosly i dont know what he meant by recent times but i did not think that copperheads where all that bad.....although i would not want to free handle them. The book was called venomous snakes of the world i believe. Its sad to see a guy like that go the way he did.

information from some very good sources have told told me,a healthy adult man would not even need immediate medical attention to a copperhead bite.However would need to see a doctor soon after for things such as infection and tissue damage...but who am I to say..the story is a shame though
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3 American Alligators
1.0 Albino Burm
1.0 Green Tree Python
0.1 Veild Chameleon
1.0 Red Eyed Tree Frog
1.0 Bearded Dragon

"Never insult an Alligator until you have crossed the river"-oriental proverb

>>information from some very good sources have told told me,a healthy adult man would not even need immediate medical attention to a copperhead bite.However would need to see a doctor soon after for things such as infection and tissue damage...

You probably already know this, but for the benefit of other reading who might not... A healthy adult would, in most cases, probably SURVIVE a copper bite without medical treatment...BUT...like you said, tissue damage is a real possibility and the sooner you get treatment, the less damage there will be. So, if you are bitten by a copper, head to the horpital as soon as reasonably possible. Don't stay home just because you heard copper bites are not fatal...

There's also the possibility of an allergic reaction. If you start having an allergic reacontion, the time to be looking for help is past. You need to already be on your way to the hospital (and not be the one driving) or have paramedics on their way to you.

Let us not forget there are many variables to take into account
regarding snake bite fatalities. Generaly "hemotoxic" snake bites (pardon the vauge classification )cause death via renal failure or enhanced or decreased blood preasure. This is not always the case but is definately a huge concern when talking about viperade and crotalid bites.

Generaly there needs to be massive internal bleeding from the venoms action and the reason copperheads are considered mild is because they do not posess alot of venom in comparison to members of the Crotalus genus or even other members of Agkistrodon. There for the tissue damage, aka internal bleeding is kept at a minimum. Thats why most copperhead bites look like bad bruises and nothing more.

There is also the posiblity of sucumbing to secondary infection like gang green for instance. However in this case it seem the bite quickly prooved fatal, or atleast within days. Also, since copperheads dont usualy cause sever tissue distruction ther USUALY isnt a festering wound to worry about. If bitten on a small apendage like your finger, yes, it can cause a festering wound (as was my case. I got tagged assits feeding a juvi which wiggled out just enough to slip a fang into my index finger). The vitim in the case was tagged on the ankle however so the venom should have had enough room to spread, keeping maximum effects diluted.

The most likly culprit in this case is either an exsisting medical condition the gentleman had which was enhanced due to the bite, the age of the victim (65 puts you in the high risk category)or allergic reaction leading to fatal shock.

There is the off chance that he could have been bitten by a monsterous specimen but the local indicated means it was A.c.mokasen (Northern Copperhead) which is renounded as a one of the smallest sub species. This can be misleading for the largest copperhead ever recorded came from White Plains New York, well into A.c.mokasen's range. The norm however is that Northern Copperheads are one of the smaller sub species.

No venom is only one or another type so perhaps systematic effects manifested into respitory problems. Snake venoms are always evolveing, as is their prey's imunity to said venom so it could have been some weird venom change in that population, similar to what has been documented with Norther Pacific Rattlesnakes and Timber rattlesnakes in GA.

It could also be that the victim had an exsisting heart condition or blood preasure problem which was aggrevated to a fatal degree do to the blood effecting actions of the venom.

Personaly I belive in the case the bite enhanced an exsisting medical condition leading to death based on the age of the victim. It would be very interesting to hear a more detaled medical report but I doubt we will ever see it ; ;

No real reason for this post other then to make sure everyone realizes all of the factors involved in snake bite fatalities. This bite dosent proove that copperheads are more dangerous then once thought. It prooves that any venomus bite or sting can lead to death, be it from a snake, ant, bee, coneshell, spider etc.

Ooops, I guess it isnt obvious which sub species it is. There are several cities and counties named "Madison" somthing or another in the mid atlantic/Northeast and I belive I was thinking of somwhere close to me. I guess this is South Caronlina? Well, then its A.c.contortix probaly lol, the largest ssp.

In rate, minus the Northern Copperhead remarks I still stand by my other statments

np
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Lifelist

Thank you ^^ Dont know were got SC from. I think another poster mentioned it. I couldnt find any info at glace from the article.

There is the off chance that he could have been bitten by a monsterous specimen but the local indicated means it was A.c.mokasen (Northern Copperhead) which is renounded as a one of the smallest sub species. This can be misleading for the largest copperhead ever recorded came from White Plains New York, well into A.c.mokasen's range. The norm however is that Northern Copperheads are one of the smaller sub species.

For the record, this incident occured in Madison County, Texas which is located in the east-central part of the state between Houston and Dallas. To my knowledge, the Northern Copperhead (Agkistrodon contortrix mokasen) does not even occur in the state of Texas, unless you are looking a a very old text (ie. Brown, 1949). The copperheads occuring in Madison Co. Texas are intergrades between the Southern Copperhead and the Broad-banded Copperhead (Agkistrodon contortrix contortrix x laticinctus)

Other than the above I think that some of the possobilities you mentioned could have very well been factors in the victim's death. I had been casually acquainted with Mr. West, but had had no contact with him since I moved from Texas five years ago, so I can not vouch for his health conditions at the time of his unfortunate accident. I also think that the fact that his death occured very shortly after being bitten and the fact that the bite occured on an ankle where there is normally a minimal amount of flesh leaving arteries and veins just beneth the skin certainly leaves open the very real possibility that the bite went diretly into an artery or vein. But these are all things that we will not know until and IF the autospy report is ever made public.

But regardless, Jim West was a fine gentleman who will be sorely missed by his family, friends and colleagues.
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Gerald Keown
The Venomous Snakes of Texas

Thank you for the correction and further information. Your right. It would be much easier to puncture a vein or artery on the ankle then most other places due to the veins being so close to the surface. Genneraly snake btes are subcu injections rather then IV ones but that could be the case. I dont even want to imagine that stuff getting directly into a vein ; ; Ive seen first hand what it can do to your finger tip.

As always, this is a very misfortunate accident and my prayers go out to the family.

The article mentions an autopsy pending. If those results are published, they may prove significant to the question at hand. However, even when copperhead envenomation proves less than fatal, resultant tissue destruction can lead to permanent disability. Its no small matter.

It is my belief that the primary reason for the superstition surrounding the “weakness” of copperhead envenomation is the fact that most locals misidentify the harmless snake that bit them as a copperhead. I have seen it first hand in North Carolina. Miracle moonshine recovery after being bitten by a water snake. This was terribly unfortunate, sounds like the guy must have stepped right on it, which would cause the snake to react and bite down really hard. Still is quite a rarity I would imagine, which is a good thing. The victim sounds like a good guy, a real tragedy. I never liked the cutesy term “hots”, all of these things are “poisonous”. In honor of the late Jim West, let’s not forget it.

You are correct Sir! There are no "poisonous" snakes. That would imply that you would be poisoned by touching or eating one of these snakes. Not real accurate, but a commonly used term. I doubt the real scientific community would use it (I wouldn’t know). When I lived in the western Piedmont area of North Carolina, no one ever even heard the term "venomous", everything was "poisonous". I think everyone knows what you mean when you say a poisonous snake. It is meant to imply danger amongst the lay-folk, I guess, and has caught on. My point was to take a moment to reflect on the passing of someone who was bitten by a snake that we tend to dismiss as being barely dangerous. A potentially fatal mistake because we are so jaded by keeping "hots". Again, a cutesy term that tends to dismiss all “venomous” snakes from the harsh reality expressed by that mans death.

Just out of curiosity how do we know the species involved? I may just be missing something.

I wouldn't be surprised if the guy had a heart attack given his age and his picture showing he was pretty heavy.

Do you really call this a death by Copper Head bite if the man died of a heart attack? I think that it may be premature to claim that the copperheads venom did in an adult male in "good health".

Sounds like a heck of a guy.