Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Been waiting for this girl to come through. I think air-conditioning slows the process down.

Hi John,

Congratulations! That is a wonderful site!
I don't know what's going on with my pair.
Especially after being fed they immediately start to crawl above each other and the typical throbbing starts. But I couldn't see a single copulation. The whole procedure takes 10-15 min. and then they go their own ways. Did you provide any special container or where did she leave the clutch?

Best wishes from Germany

Jürgen

Hello Jürgen,

Always good to hear from another schrencki keeper.

Thanks. In late April and well into May I would introduce the male into the female's cage for a day or so every week. There was a good amount of activity and I noted several copulation over various times I put them together. Interestingly last year she didn't produce eggs. Maybe it was a bad year. I saw activity last year but no results. Maybe she was worn down.

I put a plastic shoe box with a hole in the cover with moist sphagnum moss inside in the cage after the pre-lay shed. This makes it less likely that she will lay them in the water bowl and makes them less likely to be pushed around in the cage after they are laid. She almost seemed to be trying to warm them like a mother python might (but that's probably my imagination.

Best of luck
John

Dear John,

thanks for your quick reply. K.D. Schulz assumes in his monograph that E. schrencki only mate in a 2-yrs. cycle though other authors couldn't confirm that. I keep my pair together. Maybe it's a wise idea to keep them separately after the next hibernation period.
As I have said, it leaves me puzzled that any mating activity only happens right after I fed them. Thanks for the beautiful photos!

Regards Jürgen

The enclosure of my Russians (150cm*130cm*70cm)

Jürgen:
You're welcome. I remember seeing that in Schulz. After next year if the failure repeats itself I will agree with him.

That sounds like a good idea about separating after brumation until after the mating season. I'll bet that will work.

Hey that's a very professional looking enclosure. I wish I had some nice displays like that. Schrencki are so active and interesting I'd probably spend half the day watching them if they had a cage like yours to move around in.

Best regards
John

Yes John, when I got them, i first kept them in an enclosure that was almost half the size, and when I saw how active they are, I decided to give them a bigger one. I'm glad, I built that background into it. They use it so often, either for climbing or to rest.
I think, we both agree: if it was to recommend a really active snake, Russian ratsnakes are the perfect choice

Good luck with your clutch!

Jürgen

PS: in a few weeks I'll get a pair of Gonyosoma prasinum (cb'05).
Something I'm really looking forward to

NT

I have never kept Russian Rat Snakes, but I have kept all of the American Rat Snakes over the past 25 years. The behavior you noted about mating , "Especially after being fed they immediately start to crawl above each other and the typical throbbing starts", could also be territorial behavior and also males that meet each other often exhibit what can be confused for mating behavior and twitch and even go on top of each other etc... I have also seen females exhibit similar behavior towards each other, this could be an artifact of the captive environment, I would re-sex the snakes (probe) to make certain they are a sexual pair. Since this behavior has been noted in both sexes towards one another, even a male and female could exhibit such behavior that is not related to reproduction in any way. So even if they are a sexual pair, rat snakes have many types of behaviors that involve similar twitches, throbbing, and various jerky movements that aren't related to reproduction, since it's happening right after they eat, it could be related to competition, especially in such a large cage, territories may have been established and more natural occurring behaviors may be the result of such a large captive environment. The statement you made, "then they go their own ways", also makes me feel like they are establishing some form of hierarchy within their enclosure, or maybe, the boring fact is, they simply aren't mating LOL.. Russian Rat snakes most likely exhibit similar behaviors analogues to American Rat Snakes, some food for thought.
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Frank Roberts
R&R Herpetological Frank Roberts & John Rodriguez

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Roberts'Realm of Reptile Research

Dear Frank,

thanks very much for your reply. Food for thought, indeed!
Recently I had the impression they were rather fighting than preparing for a sexual encounter. Therefore I will have their sex determined again. Maybe you're right and it could be a territorial behaviour. I'm really thankful for your comments, since you have expressed some things I've been considering myself but wasn't sure, if I misinterpreted them. Time to re-examine the situation.

Best wishes

Jürgen
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I keep a few Eurasian ratsnake species

No problem, I love talking snake behavior. Even a male and female could have territorial disbutes outside of the mating season. Rat snakes interact more so, than most colubrid species I have kept. I thought eurasian (ssp) rat snakes probably are similar in behavior patterns to american rat snakes, I have always wanted a russian rat snake, maybe someday I will get one.
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Frank Roberts
R&R Herpetological Frank Roberts & John Rodriguez

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Roberts'Realm of Reptile Research

I must say, I have this pair for only 6 months, and that of course includes the hibernation period. So I'm not too familiar with the behaviour of Russians.
About 10 days ago when I fed them, I observed that after they had finished their meal, one of them bit the other into the side a couple of times. It was precisely the spot where the mouse was! Now you may know why I've read your comments with such high interest, Frank!
So I reckon, it was more about jealousy about food than mating behaviour.
Funny enough (or not...) these are the only snakes I keep together.
All other pairs are kept separately.
Finally I'm not too worried about all this, since I only have them for a short time and I don't want to turn them into 'breeding machines' but first of all learn more about their behaviour.

Schöne Grüße

Jürgen

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I keep a few Eurasian ratsnake species

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Frank Roberts
R&R Herpetological Frank Roberts & John Rodriguez

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Roberts'Realm of Reptile Research

Jürgen,

What an awesome enclosure you have! Not only is it quite spacious, you are also making good use of the available space with all the plateaus en branches! Good work! *Thumbs up*

Regards,

Bert Grit
The Netherlands

Gooie avond, Bert!

Thanks a lot! Glad you like it.
Yes, and they really use every inch of it.
Besides being useful it's a wonderful piece of furniture .

All the best

Jürgen

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I keep a few Eurasian ratsnake species

John,
That's what I love to see! Definetely my favorite species of snake. I read through the thread here and can throw a little more info at it. I have had a couple of females for a while and one of them (CH sub-adult when I got her) has successfully bred every year for the past five years. She ranges between 7-12 eggs per clutch. The other female bred the first year I got her as a WC adult, but didn't breed the next year. The year after that she produced the largest clutch I've had from Schrencki (14 eggs). And now this year she again didn't breed. Don't know if the captive bred status has any influence on the breeding, but thought I'd share my experience.

Bryan
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Last night I was laying in bed looking up at the stars in the sky and I thought to myself, "Where the hell is my ceiling?"

So it seems that skipping a year is a trend but not a hard rule. Thanks for the feedback. Always like to talk to schrencki keepers. Definitely a great ratsnake for observing and display.

Best regards
John

John,
Have you ever had your W Fox Snakes skip a year?
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Regards, Bill McGighan

Bill:
The skips really were more a matter of conditioning and not a natural cycle. Last year I tried keeping them in the basement year-round and I wasn't able to get the temperatures in their cages up to normal until April. So they got a late start and were too skinny to produce. This year they were early enough and fat enough to go.

But you know, I'm thinking I might start skipping some of my breeders to every other year. Breeding every year must put quite a strain on the females.

Mine may be skipping this year, but I'm not sure yet.
.
Even though I'm not permitted to sell any of my obsoletus, I'm afraid to intensionally skip them because of the stories of slugs binding the animals.
.
Any oppinions or experiences are appreciated.
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Regards, Bill McGighan

Gee, I'd like to get more info on the incidence of egg binding in snakes that skip a year of mating. I'd hate to think I couldn't give the girls a year off every once in a while.

Don't panic yet.
It may be nothing more than an old fool not remembering well.
I'll research it in the next few days.
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Regards, Bill McGighan

I've asked the question on egg binding from slugs on the "Herp Health & Breeding " forum. Hopefully it's not a problem.
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Regards, Bill McGighan

>>I've asked the question on egg binding from slugs on the "Herp Health & Breeding " forum. Hopefully it's not a problem.
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>>Regards, Bill McGighan

Bill, looking forward to hearing more about the egg-binding. I've had some problems with egg-binding in the past, but it wasn't because of slugs. ASAMOF, slugs have been fairly common in some of my clutches in the past with no egg-binding, especially in young snakes. I think the egg-binding might have a lot to do with the female being too young or not conditioned properly (needs better feeding), than having had a clutch the previous year.

BTW, I've had Western fox snakes and Russian ratsnakes, and they are similar in that they both have a very short active season in the wild. What we do is condition them to our standards, i.e., we put them on an eight month schedule and brumate four months, or whatever, and then they might produce every year. In the wild it might take two years to build up the reserves it takes to produce a clutch. Our Eastern massasaugas here in Michigan are like that too.

Sorry, late in coming onto this strand, I've been in Texas. Would like to talk more, but will be outa town til later today.

Terry

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Ratsnake Haven...researching ratsnakes since 1988

Ratsnake Haven Group...an information providing list site.

I think you're right, Terry.

I think I was borrowing trouble.

The only egg binding I've ever had was from a female eastern king years ago that was bred by mistake and was too young.
I think the "binding from slugs" was misinformation I received a while back.
I got some good responses from the "veterinarian world" over on the "herp health and breeding."

How was Texas?
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Regards, Bill McGighan

Hi, Bill. Texas was great. I always enjoy the IHS. I saw a few snakes also while I was there. Maybe I'll make a post about the ratsnakes I saw. Later....TC