Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Would someone be kind enough to explain the lesser sibling genetic make up?

I was told platinums can be produced from Lesser to sibling!

Thanks

Brian A.

Here's a link to a site that can probably shed some light on the subject. I hope it helps.

Platinum/Lesser/Sibling Genetics
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Louis Kirkland
Cornerstone Reptiles

Another possible explanation for the results reported so far is that the platy is a combination of two different mutant versions of the same gene - alleles. One version makes the lesser and the other version doesn't seem to do much by it's self but in the combination with lesser it dilutes the lesser into a platy (seems to do the same for at least butter and phantom but probably not yet tested with the entire platy complex). In this scenario half the offspring from platy X normal get the dilute gene and look normal and the other half get the lesser gene and look lesser. Breeding the two together would in this theory give eggs each with a 25% chance of getting both mutant versions of the gene and looking platy.

i tend more towards the allele theory for two main reasons:

1) no distinct, VISIBLE, homozygous version of the dilutent gene has been produced yet (nothing besides platties, lessers and lucies came out of platty to daughter crosses...would have turned up by now)

2) although reacting like a codom and appearing visibly in the F1, the platty gene-cocktail appears to reproduce like a homozygous animal would...meaning, all offspring either seem to recieve the gene for lesser, or the hidden dilutent gene that makes lessers into platties...
so, ALL normals out of a platty would be heterozygous for the dilutent gene...and people paying extra money for animals that are closer to platty daddy thinking they have increased odds of getting the hidden gene are perhaps doing so in vain. RDR may have suspected this long ago...consulted with genetics experts back in '01, or for whatever reason made the shrewd move to hold back EVERY normal sib out of a platty. wise on them!

i also suspect that the allele theory may also be applied to the the lucies created by lessers...if the platy gene and lesser are alleles, then perhap mojave is also related in a similar manner, and finds it's home within what has now been coined by Mr. Remington as the "platty complex."
perhaps lesser-mojave lucies will prove to reproduce like a homozygous animal...meaning, all offspring will recieve either a mojave type gene or a lesser type gene...never siring a lucy like a bumblebee can sire a bumblebee when bred to an unrelated normal.
i would also take it al a step farther by suggesting that the mother of the crystal ball could be a carrier of a gene that behaves in the same conventionally baffling-at-first-glance manner as the platty-makin' gene, AND, RDR could produce "mojave-daddies(which may turn out to be what a crystal is), russo-daddies, and who knows what other kinda daddy depending on what morphs turn out to be alleles of the original platty daddy...

been coined by Mr. Remington as the "platty complex."

Actually the first time I saw the term "platy complex" applied to this group it was credited to VPI. I think "complex" is a good name for such a group of related genes - and I believe the relationship is a multiple mutant allele group in this case. However the group is now a lot bigger than just platy but I can't think of a better name. You could call them the white snake complex but then you have at least ivory as a white snake outside of this group and perhaps also the homozygous fire which seems likely (but as far as I know not yet tested) to be different.

very well...i think "platty complex" is a very appropriate name for the group as RDR made the first lesser-lesser, and lesser phantom lucies with a platty, not to mention still being the only one ever to make platties...butter daddies, and phantom-daddies...all starting with the original "platty daddy"...
here's a hunch: notice how mojaves, lessers, butters, and phantoms have a distinct pattern that is easily distinguishable from normals? while russo line, fires, het ivories and other white-snake-makers have more conventional normal patterns?
i would postulate that the "platty complex" encompasses these more uniquely patterend animals in particular, and a more appropriate name might be something that refers to the distinct, albeit subtle pattern of this group of snakes ie: "Platty-pattern complex." as you said, any reference to white snakes would be a misnomer, as there will undoubtedly be numerous white-snake-making hets that will prove not to be encompassed within the same alleleel group.
since cinnemons have a sort of unique pattern, i would be very curious to see whether or not a "cinne-daddy" could be made?

I believe that Russo and Graziani proved that the Vin Russo high yellow lemon is compatible with mojave to produce white snakes last year so surprisingly it seems that the high yellow lemons are in this complex too.

I think the yellow bellies have proven incompatible with several of the snakes in the complex but I'm not sure if the fires have been tried. I didn't think they had but then someone posted that SK has fire mojave crosses so I'll have to see what I can find on their site about that when I get time.

Who knows on cinnamon? I wouldn't expect it but I didn't expect the Vin Russo either.

So if I understand correctly, the sibling theory is misleading at best.

Thanks

Brian A.

I wouldn't say missleading. The whole complex is an unknown where we are still engaged in discussion to try to figure it out. It's still far from resolved but at least you can read the theories, weigh whatever public evidence is available, and come to your own conclusions.