Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm a newt newbie, and have several questions, so any help in any of these areas is greatly appreciated.

I just bought two 2" long firebellies from a pet store, where they were in a room with all the other herps, and it had to be about 80 degrees or so in there. They've been there for about a month and I've had my eye on them, concerned about the high temps they're kept at. This pet store has in the past kept other firebellies in a community tank with green tree frogs and fire bellied toads, and says that everyone does fine. I wonder about this. More on that later....

Right now I have mine in a 5 gallon tank with about 3 inches of water and a built up area of river gravel, a big rock and an artificial aquarium plant. This is a temporary tank and it's in a bathroom that stays a bit cooler than the rest of our house, with a fan blowing at the tank. The water temp is 68 and the room temp is 73. Looks like the fan does a better job of cooling the water than the tank air.

Anyway, here are my concerns: How long do these little guys take to acclimate to a new environment? They seem a bit freaked out (understandably so) and don't seem to want to be in the water. It's well water, from a spring system, running through a Culligan softner and pH adjuster (the springs here in Northwest Florida are pretty acidic). According to a test strip, it's within normal limits as it stands in the newts' tank. Coming out of the faucet, it reads a little differently. (lower pH and lower total alk). My guess is the rocks help adjust the levels. There's no cholorine or other treatment chemicals other than the softner, which is just rock salt. Since the Culligan people do all the maintenance, I'm not sure what is used to affect the pH levels.

So I'm wondering if they are trying to adjust to the cooler water, or if the water chemistry not good, or if they are just stressed because of the move.

I also have 2 red-eared sliders and a community tank with green tree froglets and tadpoles, and all are doing well. The turtle tank has a Fluval 2 filter and the frog tank has a Tetra Whisper 10 gallon filter. I add a little Turtle Clean to everyone's water and do partial water changes about every 10 to 14 days. I've not added any Turtle Clean to the newts' tank.

From what I've read, it doesn't seem possible to keep these newts with green tree frogs and fire-bellied toads. The air and water temps would be too high for their safety, and even if I were able to keep the temp low enough for the newts, the frogs wouldn't be too happy.

Does anyone have any thoughts on mixing newts with frogs? If the firebellies can't share, it' no trouble to keep them on their own, but are there any newts that can be kept comfortably with my frogs?

What filter do folks tend to like for a small tank with 2 fb newts? I think I should get them a real, plant, too.

Thanks for reading and sharing. It's great to have someone to talk to about this stuff. I've bored my husband for way to long!

Fire-bellied toads will viciously attack the fbn's, especially at the size the newts are. Low seventies high sixties for temp should be fine, 80 is way too high except for maybe a day. Keeping fbn's with green treefrogs is out of the question, because of the temperature preference differences. It's unusual that the newts don't want to submerge, but it might be from stress. Fbn's and almost any newt prefer cool temperatures and will most likely become stressed at anything over 70-80 degreesF, depending on the species. I have had good success keeping 1 Pachytriton labiatus (paddletail newt) with 1 fire-bellied toad, but this is definitely not suggested, as it takes a lot more work; I have to individually hand feed them on opposite sides of the tank so the paddletail doesn't pester the toad.

i have kept 6 firebelly toads and two firebelly newts toether for the last three years without any problems. i have 5 adult toads and one subadult toad, one adult newt and one 2" newt. the toads do tend to be more aggressive feeders and will bite the newts if they are moving near prey, but they let go pretty quick, and sometimes the larger newt grabs a toads leg thinking its food as well, but this has never caused a problem. it depends on the individual toads and newts as to whether or not a mixed tank will work, i have not had problems, but other people have. keeping a proper and natural setup, as well as hand feeding each toad and newt individualy has probaly been the key to my success, though i do just through in crickets at times and let them hunt on their own. keeping other species of amphibians, espically if they are larger than the firebelly newts or toads is dangerous, because firebellies have toxins in their skin which are deadly to other amphibians, besides other firebellies. green treefrogs and newts would probaly be okay, since they don't interact much, but i would wait until the greens are at least subadults and staying out of the water. live plants are excellent for firebellies and are highly recommened. i use a whisper 40i internal filter for my 30 gal tank i keep them in (pics below).

If you do it right I suppose fbt's and fbn's could work, like how you do it because hand feeding definitely prevents many accidents; but green treefrogs prefer a full 10 degrees F warmer than do most newts.

with proper setup and humidity levels, green treefrogs will thrive in temps 60 degrees and above. I have a 30 gal high tank with one green treefrog, 2 golden treefrogs, one southern leapord frog, and a blue-spotted salamander that is designed to mimic a forest habitat. i have no heat source on this tank, it stays the about 2 degrees warmer than the house temp. In the summer we have air conditioning set at 72 degrees and in the winter the heat is set at 68 degrees. when the weather is nice, the windows are open allowing the outside temps in. i only have a heat source on 4 enclousers in my house. on my iguana, veiled chameleon, crested gecko/whites treefrog tank, and my pixie frog tank (which has an under the tank heat pad). i have never had a problem with temperatures with any of my animals, not even my smokey jungle frogs or pacman frogs, which have no heat source for their individual cages. you have to remember that green treefrogs, along with many other species of southern amphibians, have to survive in Flordia and other states during the winter months, where temps can drop as low as 35-40 degrees.

also, firebelly newts will tolerate ambient air temperatures up to 85 degrees, as long as the water temps are not above 72 degrees. a good way to help keep water temps low is to keep the water moving via a internal filter or a canister filter.

Maybe an experienced keeper like you can be successful, but I wouldn't suggest it to any new newt keeper and I myself wouldn't do it. Moving the tank into a cooler area is the easiest way to reduce surface temps, in addition to your filter ideas. Cooling packs work well too.

I've just changed my fbn setup from the 5 gal to a 10 gal and put a Whisper 10i on one end, away from the shore area. I'm not sure if they'll be bothered by the current and water output so I'm only turning the filter on for part of the day. I've been told conflicting information about filter use for newts--that they don't like a lot of water movement.

With a fan blowing at the water level of the tank, the water is staying right around 71 degrees even though the room is a bit warmer than that.

So far, my newts still aren't doing much swimming and prefer to hang out on the gravel shoreline. I'm hoping it's just a matter of them getting adjusted.

I probably won't put them in with the frogs, because it gets warmer in that part of the house. Plus it's kinda neat having them in one of the bathrooms. They get visited several times a day!

if your newts still are not going into the water and you are having a bubbling issue (as you posted in the general forum), i would tend to think that there may be an issue with your water. bubbling is usually do to high mineral concentration or conditioning additives. you may want to buy spring water (poland springs, aquafina, etc.) or distilled water and try using that. if it seems to make a difference with the bubbling and your newts liking the water, than i would suggest using that as opposed to you treated water. the bubbling could also be caused by the carbon in the filter. Did you put the carbon in the filter cartridge and wash it under cold water in a sink for at least 30 seconds before using it? if not, this could cause the bubbling as well.

I took a close look at the bubbles, and they appeared to be mainly just regular air bubbles, not as soapy as before when I had changed the water. So what I did was put a rock formation right by the bubbly area, and it has cut it down a lot. You can still see that the water is being drawn to the filter, and the outflow still makes a waterfall, but by landing on the rocks it doesn't have as much chance to get "foamy" like you see at the bottom of a waterfall.

The newts are getting in the water more and more. One of them is very personable and curious. He (she?) will swim to the side and if I put my finger near him, he'll investigate. Even though his face is very tiny, I can tell he's looking at me.

They both seem more content. Perhaps it was just the transition. I read on another site that newly moved newts will often hesitate to enter the water until they settle in.

Thanks for all the input, though. I feel better knowing I'm not alone in my quest to provide a proper newtarium (silly made up word, but it works).

snip "sted in the general forum), i would tend to think that there may be an issue with your water. bubbling is usually do to high mineral concentration or conditioning additives. you may "endsnip

Actually high mineral concentrations tend to prevent bubbles from forming. Bubbles are typically a result of high dissolved organics in the water such as protiens. If you are getting any bubbles that last more than a couple of seconds, then there maybe issues with the water quality.

I would be careful using filters on the tanks that contain marginal water temperatures as they use the water to cool the motor which raises the water temperature.
I would also suggest getting a really good thermometer (like the ones used in Chem class or a IR thermometer as the ones sold in the pet trade can be off as much as 5 degrees F. This would mean that a tank that is 71 F could be as high as 76 F...

Ed