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I don't know if these guys are too big for this forum or not.

I have a juvie lyre. He (don't actually know sex) refused a live pinky the second week I had him (my first feeding attempt). The third week, I offered a washed frozen thawed pinky, with a piece of western skink tail in the mouth, and that was taken. He refused the next two meals, likely due to shedding. After he shed (last week), he took two washed, thawed pinkys a la skink tail. I was planning on putting him in a 10 gallon, but I'm thinking that the large critter keeper may be better until I'm comfortable that he's eating regularly. Right now he's in a large critter keeper, on aspen bedding, with a cork slab taking up ~2/3rds of the floor area, a UTH for heat, and a small water bowl. His tank is adjacent to my night lizard / banded gecko tank (I thought he might find their odor stimulating).

Has anyone else here kept them? Where they good eaters? What are the chances that I'll be able to wean him off the skink tails and get him to take unscented? Are there any animals I could scent with that would be irresistable? The only caging recommendations I could find said to set them up like a ratsnake (basically how I have him now), are there any set-ups that others have had more success with? How worried should I be about bites, he rattles his tail, but has never struck at me and I'm not currently wearing any protection when I do cage maintenance or if I need to handle him (am I being careless)?

Thanks!
Alice

I have a little to offer to this...

I wouldn't say worry about bites so much, a lyre snake's bite will hurt you about as much as a ringneck's. At the most you'll get some swelling, but even that, is a little doubtful.

Eventually it will take to unscented, I know alot of people that keep/kept lyre snakes over the years, and the majority of them will switch to mice. Takes time. Just keep it eating mice with a skink tail, and leave the mouse in the same spot every time. It will get used to the routine and will eventually start taking unscented mice from that area.
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Mike
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
www.freewebs.com/mikesnake
Updated 6/27
www.captivebredforum.com

I've converted dozens to pinks.

Just take out that substrate and use newspaper as the substrate throws off the lizard/skink scent.

Get a tight hide box and allow it to use it.

Take a defrosted pink and rinse it well and rub a skink/anole all over it and then leave it outside the opening of the hide box and that seems to work every time.

After a few meals, the lyre will take live pinks with gusto.

And I got that link from Richard Hoyer, so thanks a ton.

Dan

I'm glad to hear that you've had lots of success with them!

What size enclosures relative to their size did you find to work best?

Since he seems "settled" I'm a little reluctant to tear the cage apart. This week, I'll attempt feeding with a skink scented pinky, if that isn't taken I'll offer another a la skink tail, give him a day (if he takes it) and then set him up on paper towels (I have loads since I use them for my leopard geckos) with a small hide like you suggested.

Have you ever tried scenting with a live skink? They seem to be pretty "clean" lizards compared to anoles (which I don't currently have on hand), and I'm a bit worried that there might not be enough scent transfer. Were there any other species that worked well for scenting? I have new desert spiny and I'm wondering if she might be a better option?

Thanks!
Alice

Well I would go basic at first and use a shoebox or something small so it encounters the food item frequently. If you have a large decorated cage, then its likely to be busy for a few days or weeks trying to find an escape route. Just a simple box and it will figure out early there is no escape and turn its attention to feeding faster. I have tried scenting skinks onto pinks to feed mole snakes and it worked good as the mole snake did not want anything to do with the pink until I rubbed it with a skink. However the case, I often use frozen lizards to scent with, and they seem to give off a better odor much less you do not have to stress a live skink or rub it hard to transfer the scent like with a defrosted skink. Some snakes are particular with their lizard prey but if the skink tail worked once, then it should easily work again with scenting. Lyres are jumpy and timid and often bothered by human traffic around their cage, and even handling, so I would leave it in a quite corner and it will adapt better. I read before some folks have found them in trees eating bats, so if skinks and pinks fail, get a bat to scent with. Only kidding but its true they like bats to eat.

Dan

I offered my lyre a scented pinky (the skink "peed" on it while I was rubbing, not sure if this helped). When I returned to the room, to check on them, the pinky was gone. It really never occurred to me about the aspen interfearing with the scent, but it makes sense. The aspen I used had been sitting in an open bag for about a year so most of the scent had disapated, so this may have had something to do with my success.

Did you eventually get your lyres to take unscented? If so what kind of timeline did you follow?

My observations agree with yours in that these are very nervous snakes. Can they tolerate any handling? I'd like to use my lyre for educational presentations a couple times a year (this is not a near term concern, I want to be cofortable that he's very well established first), but if this is going to cause him to go off feed for extended periods etc., I'll be satisfied keeping him as a pet only.

Thanks!
Alice

Yea, 2 or 3 feedings of scented and they will take unscented.
Try to leave 1 scented and 1 rinsed but unscented and he make take both and the problem migh be solved.

Dan

np

Excellent suggestions all around. Dan, I appreciate the suggestion to change the bedding. I've an adult male who switched off of small mice and reverted back to lizards, so I'll be giving your advice a try.

My juveniles take unscented f/t pinks like there's no tomorrow. And there isn't, at least not for the pinks.

The bite is harmless. One of mine recently hooked me while eating a f/t pinky in the palm of my hand. I had no initial symptoms, but later that day somebody honked their horn at me and gave me the finger. I cannot say whether other lyre bite victims have experienced this same symptom.