Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I know that various naming systems have been proposed for hybrids, but has anyone seriously considered a naming system like the one used for orchids, cacti, etc? For example: Lampropeltis sp. X Pituophis sp. = Pituopeltis cultivar(named variety), and Lampropeltis sp.(a) X Lampropeltis sp.(b)= Lampropeltis cultivar. IMHO, this could eliminate a lot of confusion and drastically reduce the possibility of a person unknowingly purchasing a hybrid animal. Just a thought to reduce the hybridist-nonhybridist tension by providing a sense of security to both sides. Didn't mean to open an old sore, but the real battle should be fought for our right to keep herps, not amongst ourselves! The HSUS is a bad thing for us.
-Cole

Nice idea.

It's to my understanding that current taxonomists use an "x"
to show the crossing of different species.

Normally this is more common in plants, such as carnivorous
species "Sarracennia rubra jonesi x Sarracennia purpurea purpurea"
(Sweet mountain pitcher crossed with purple pitcher plant)

If I were to indicate the classification of my snake hybrid, I
would write:

Pantherophis obsoleta obsoleta x Pituophis catenifer sayi
(Black rat snake x Bull snake)

Hope this helps.

Later.

Neil

I fully understand the "x" system, but it seems, bluntly, "lacking". Perhaps I need to reword:
In orchids-
1.Phalaenopsis(genus)species "a" x Doritis(another, related genus)species "b" =Doritaenopsis(hybrid genus) variety "ab(named)"
2.Phalaenopsis species "a" x Plalaenopsis species "b" = Phalaenopsis variety "ab(named)"
Applied to snakes-
1.Pantherophis guttatus x Lampropeltis getulus californiae = Pantheropeltis "jungle corn(the named variety)"
2.Lampropeltis mexicana thayeri x Lampropeltis rithveni = Lampropeltis "pastel King(the named variety)"

Some brain food, anyway=)
-Cole

I have ponderd this a little I think its a great idea, and it would be great if we could develop somthing now while hybrids are fairly new before there everywhere.To have a defined method in the naming and record keeping of hybrids would be a revolution in the snake world for shure.

Jeremiah Ronsonet
Diablo Snake Farm

My thoughts exactly... To have such a naming systyem adopted could mean a better reception for hybrids, too, not to mention just being able to keep track of where a particular animal's traits came from. Now, how to get people to use it...? Any ideas?
-Cole

There won't be an effective naming system that uses abbreviated or combined names (obsotatta for obsoletis x guttata?!).

Everything would be too vague; people would have more questions than answers from short versions of words that half of them don't know anyway.

I think the only thing that will work is full explanation. The two things that have to be included are species and percentage. Someting like: "75% Grayband/25% Corn het motley" or "Pyro x Thayeri F1" will be about as effective as anything. I still wish I could find the guy who advertised a "2/3 corn, 1/3 king". We need to be sure that the math works!

It may be possible to occasionally coin a name for a new animal, but those cases will be rare. "Jungle Corn" was the last colubrid name that stuck, and it was termed well over a decade ago. I'm curious to know if the name "Pastel King" will work...

I'm tired, so all apologies for the babbling rant if this doesn't read well!

Only generic names would be combined...not species names. The hybrid genus would be followed by an "accepted" name for the particular strain.
-Cole

I've been doing this for a while and I still don't understand what system is being talking about. Imagine a novice trying to figure out some kind of hybrid "Herpbonics"!

Coining new names for everything sounds fine but it can't work. Any attempt at getting cute with the names will only spread confusion and raise many more questions than answers.

Why not just call them what they are? All you need is the species involved and the percentage. That's what people are going to ask for anyway when they try to figure out what all the lingo means.

This is already a confused issue. Writing our own dictionary and forcing it down the buying public's throat is condescending and will not help any of us.

You talk as though 75% Lampropeltis alterna/25% Lampropeltis triangulum gentilis X 50/50 jungle corn/Pantherophis obloleta obsoleta isn't confusing. I only suggested a standardized naming system which has already been in place in botany for some time, and utilized by novices and pros alike without catastrophic mishaps. Perhaps plant folk and herp folk have nothing in common?! I don't see it that way but maybe others do.
I apologize for any condescending I may have done, Scott. That was not my intention. Just an attempt to add some clarity to the murkiness of hybridization by providing standardized names for the hybridizer to lable his/her animals. Again, I apologize. I ment not to confuse, but to to end it.
-Cole

Hey Cole,

First let me say that after I re-read my last reply it looked very terse. I apologise for my tone. I went to the doctor yesterday and found out that I have two ear infections! Maybe that's why I was so grumpy.

I just think that any shortening or manipulation of words implies knowledge on the part of the reader. Knowledge that they need to get from the source rather than from a book or on the net. I'm just scared of having to explain the taxonomy more than the animals themselves. I will probably always think that listing species/percentage is the way to go.

It's a good topic and if you can develop a workable system it would be great. I would use it for sure!

Anyway, I guess we just won't see eye-to-eye on this issue and I'm fine with that. But thanks for ruffling my feathers, a person needs that every now and then!

Two!. . . That sucks! Sorry to hear that. I do actually see your point. And, it's a valid one. Hope you feel better.
-Cole