Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here is the clutch as it stands (one straggler yet to pip). The top 2 are the ones out today. One has some odd pattern that looks pretty darn cool I must say.
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Crazy patterned one...


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That's too cool Keith! Looks like a keeper huh.

Yeah its a cool one, thanks.

Keith
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Now what would be really interesting is to see if any of the blotches/interbands lighten up at all. I doubt they will but we do see a little bit of speckling in the GA Easterns.

....looks just like a goini.

Can't believe I was the 1st one to say it.....

How far south are these parents from?

Nice, though.

Chris

Well its already been discussed actually just not today lol. These are f3's originating from Kevin Enge's South Georgia pair. The founding male is a WC from Echols Co., GA

He is no longer breeding due to old age and Kevin says he is not looking so hot
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The founding female is a WC Tift Co., GA. Im not sure if she is still alive anymore.

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Here are the F1 offspring to above WC above that Will Still purchased from Enge in the late 90's. They are also the parents too my breeders...

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Here are the F2 parents to the hatchlings I just posted.
Female

Male

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So yeah I think with the original WC pair coming from S GA there could be some Goini genetics in there...or not. Look at the Mosaics from S. Carolina. They arent from anywhere near the Apalachicola yet...
WC Edisto Island, SC adult female Eastern King

A F1 hatch...

Another F1 hatch from WC Edisto Island, South Carolina adults

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All very nice Keith. That first one looks a little bit too much goini to me.
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Mike
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
www.freewebs.com/mikesnake
Updated 6/27
www.captivebredforum.com

congrats! i can sure see the floridana influence at work veryvery nice lookin kings,,,,,,,thomas

i can sure see the floridana influence at work

What kind of influence? That has absolutely nothing in it that makes it look like a Florida King. If anything, this simply gives more evidence of the Apalachicola Kings being closely related to Eastern Kings and less to Floridas.

your a splitter im a lumper, i see floridana influence you dont ok,opinions,opinions,opinions
im sorry i dont acknowledge apalachicola,goini,blotched,meansi,whatever you want to call it as a ssp. but good luck with that,,,,,,,,,,,thomas

I don't consider Apalachicola Kings to be a valid ssp. either, but I don't think Florida Kings have anything to do with their patterning. In Keith's reply to Chris Jones you can see why. I think it's these types of variations Sean was refering to.
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Ace

Hmmm, I was asking what sort of influence you see? Can you describe it. This discussion isn't about what should or should not be a subspecies. So what sort of floridana influence do you notice?

have you ever seen a flaXeastern cross? how about f1 or f2's outcrossed back with either parent ssp.? after you do ,then maybe you can see "it", as "it" pops up right at ya, for me it does anyway.
they are great lookin getula.
i just find it funny "purist" type splitters will argue the point of "pure" ssp. oh well that snake is blahblahssp.and even though it naturally shares range with this blahssp.its pure blahblah!!!(which in and of itself is just hilarious!) anyway its pretty common knowledge georgia is a melting pot of getula,so it stands to reason getula from Ga. will have a variety of patterns&types which are/were influenced oneway or the other by established dominant ssp. in this case lgg and lgf.
now what do i call "them"
FAT BANDED GA. EASTERN KINGS. as IMHO they more resemble lgg than lgf,i see both traits,but hey what do i know im a lumpermaybe they really are "pure" lgg as whatever "pure" ssp. means is aparently just a point of view anyway, to me a pure ssp. is an oxymoron,,,,,,,thomas

Yeah I've seen plenty of the Eastern X Florida crosses and none have looked like Keith's specimen. Why don't you describe what "it" is you are referring to as I have no idea. It's interesting that I and several others on here immediately noticed that specimen looked more like an Apalachicola King than anything else. And just to clarify, notice I don't use scientific names here. I use the common name Apalachicola King referring to the population of getula found in the Apalachicola Lowlands.

a pure ssp. is an oxymoron"

LMAO!

Congrats Keith, they look incredible. Abberant animals similar to the first one are seen from time to time in South GA, that's a pretty extreme one but nothing un-getula about it....especially in locales such as Tift, Cook & Lowndes counties. The variablity of getula in Southern GA amazing. Some crazy animals have come from down there...in addition to the exceptional ones in Enge & Still collections there was a male with 9 superwide bands found and that "bullseye" animal that was posted a while back was from near there. I have also seen an animal with a subocularis like pattern from Tift....it's a great place for trick getula.

Horridus@aol.com

This one?
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A goini in a batch of easterns? something like this happened to somebody else, only he hatched out some Ga.easterns out of a clutch of goini. The eastern gene pool must be messed up or maybe it's the goini gene pool that's messed up. Oh-well, great looking baby kingsnakes anyway and congratz.

n/p

Nice Keith! Depending on what Zee produces, Bonkers looked just like picture numbers 2 & 4 at birth...the same brick red with a hint of lemon yellow near the lower row of scales. It lasted about 15 months before she developed cream colored banding.

Nice snakes!!
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Peace.

-John

getting harder see the eastern pattern in some,still wondering if South Ga. and North Florida did not intergrade many moons ago.congrates Awesome.Chris you knew someone was going to say that LOL

COOL man! Congrats on the hatch! VERY NICE (every one of them!)
BTW:Is that first one mine??? HEHEHEHEHE!!!!

Zee
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-