Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I started this spring with high hopes of breeding my cali kings after a 2 1/2 year project of preparing them. I brought them out of cooling in mid March, and the female has been eating two mice per week. I have been watching for the tell-tale shed as described in the article entitled 'the captive breeding of colubrid snakes' but as of now, more than two months later, she has yet to shed. Does anybody have any suggestions? Are there any other signs that I should be aware of? Or is it more like BETTER LUCK NEXT YEAR? Thanks.

--Doug

Start breeding your snakes within a few weeks after coming out of brumation. I DO NOT wait for the first shed and absolutely would never wait for a second shed! I have a thayeri laying her eggs right now and she never shed coming out of brumation. When I had rosy boas a lot of my females would never shed after brumation either. I also had a cal king lay eggs without a pre-shed, and had a corn lay eggs while in the blue. These books we read are only guidelines, they are not bibles. Go ahead and try breeding them now! If she is receptive it will happen. If she already ovulated then you will have to wait until next year.

Good luck!

Kerby...

Thanks for the input all! It looks as if I will be waiting for next spring to breed, but now I have a little more knowledge to help. I figured that I had read up and was sufficiently prepared, but after a little closer observation I can see that I missed my opportunity. She has been slightly larger through the middle, and I am seeing more of the black tipping on her white scales in that area. Where she had seemed firm to me she now seems not as much so. And yes, the male had been VERY active about a month ago. It's all for the best I guess. She's OK in size (42 inches, decent girth), but next year? Can't wait. And perhaps I'll do a little more research...

--Doug

If she had ovulated you should have seen considerably thickening in her mid-body, and might even have felt the ovum as she crawled through your hand, with your thumb pressed gently into her belly. Generally speaking, there are visual clues to her readiness, and you need not go only by the "calendar", be it "so-many-months" or "so-many-sheds".

I think the general guidelines in the books, which Kerby notes, are worthwhile, even though he's correct and exceptions sometiimes occur. (Kerby, it seems you've had more than your share of very unusual reproductive events in your collection). I do believe that if you started trying to breed Hondurans a week or two out of brumation you'd create more problems than solutions, for example, and that you're better served observing closely and then managing the breeding process.

So Capnmoby, how about giving us some more information: How is the male eating? Would the female take three mice per week? Have you observed considerable thickening in her body, compared to his? Try the crawl-thru-the-hands technique: Do you feel any small marble-sized bumps as she moves through your hands? Have you ever put them together? Your email doesn't say. If you have, what happened when you did? All this information will help you get a lot better insight from the forum as to what's going on.

But I don't think you need to give up completely yet. Tell us more.

Terry

As pointed out by the others, some females have read the books, and some haven't. A shed does seem to stimulate breeding in some females, but not all.

I generally allow my males to let me know when it is time. Male kingsnakes and ratsnakes will become really active when there is a receptive female in the same room. If your male starts crawling around his cage 24/7, it may mean he is looking for the receptive female he can smell. Many times, introducing him to her at that time will result in a quick mating.
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Chris Harrison

And as mentioned by Terry, if you are breeding snakes that can be cannibalistic, you will need to observe the breeding process. Especially if introduced too early before the female is receptive. I do multiple breedings to insure success and when the female does shed, I always keep her shed in her cage and let the male smell her shed first as I put him into her cage. As in the wild, it is the male who tracks down the female and is always in "her house". Breeding works both ways with the introduction of either male-to-female's cage or female-to-male's cage; especially when they are both ready.

And yes, the male snake can smell quite well, in fact in the wild when the male comes upon a female shed, he can determine direction and spend the next few days in tracking down his mate.

Kerby...

You may have missed the opportunity this year, or maybe not. I would put them together (just be careful, after all they are cannibalistic ). Some snakes breed later in the breeding season than others of the same species. Personally, I only have one pair of California Kings and my female has not yet shed this year but is very gravid. She should be getting ready to go into her pre-egg laying shed soon. I have found the pre egg laying shed to be much more reliable than the "I am now ready to breed" shed.

" I have found the pre egg laying shed to be much more reliable than the "I am now ready to breed" shed."

me too, i'm realizing that more and more with each season's observations. I've always been a "hondurans breed after second shed" and that's been my goal, but itnerestingly this year maybe a third of them rapidly progressed through their second shed and began breeding approximately 60-70 days after coming out of brumation, but (THIS IS THE PART I FOUND INTERESTING) the other half to two thirds didn't move into a second shed but also started breeding around 60-70 days after coming out of brumation. So maybe time is more important than number of sheds, and the number (two) of sheds just happens to usually coincide with the requisite passage of time that triggers hondo breeding. It's something i'll be watching more closely next year.

terry

I agree, it may in fact be time related. I have not really kept accurate enough records to be able to come to any such conclusion yet, but there may be some truth to it.