Reptile & Amphibian Forums

...Manouria emys emys for me!!!!!!!!!!!! YEOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can actually hardly believe it. Why? We've had this imported adult pair of M. emys emys for 11 years and this is the FIRST clutch I've had the female deposit! Now, it's possible I've missed something in the past, but I've always kept a close eye on them. The total count was 39 eggs with 2 rotten. I actually believe a clutch of roughly 33 or 34 was deposited yesterday and that a few of these eggs are actually from a previous clutch I missed (therefore the rotten eggs). The female is doing exactly what is expected of this species. She is keeping the nest mound 'groomed' and 'attacks' me when I approach the mound and trys to bite. VERY neat stuff! Now, the problem: I have NO idea how to incubate these eggs... D'oh! Talk about being caught with your pants down. I've read things before as in the info on www.chelonia.org, but I just don't know exactly what to do with them. I figure they will be similar to Elongata eggs, but maybe cannot take as much of a 'dry out' and rehydration near the end?! So, any ideas from anyone who has produced them? I plan to get in touch with Chuck Schaffer or Vic Morgan to get their info on egg incubation if possible.

Thanks for looking! I'm REAL happy!!!!!!!

Matt

Man is that cool! Too bad they aren't high end.

Hey Carl!

Well, I did speak to Chuck this evening and he believes they are going to be on the 'Red' list as critically endanged this year or maybe next?! So, they just 'might' make that high end list after all Sorry, Columbia...I'll stop beating that dead horse now. But, I could not resist just one mo' time. Hey, if they are $50 bucks or $5000 I'll still enjoy them all the same. The eggs are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooo strange!?! They are almost 'rubber' like and I'm told will harden in due time. They also have dents in them that pop back out as the incubation moves along (based on the literature I've read). Very interesting stuff! Hopefully these will be viable and hatch in due time. We'll see! I'll take data on the female and the eggs. I think you would be surprised how many eggs for such a small female tort. I was floored.

Matt

>>Man is that cool! Too bad they aren't high end.

What kind of tortoise are they? Common name? Thats great news, either way rare or not, its always fun to get eggs, i have box turtles, and my turtle acctually laying another clutch today/tonight. Its always exciting.

>>What kind of tortoise are they? Common name?

Burmese 'Brown' Mountain Tortoise

>> Thats great news, either way rare or not, its always fun to get eggs, i have box turtles, and my turtle acctually laying another clutch today/tonight. Its always exciting.

Hey, Box Turtles are SO awesome and always in need of CBB babies instead of being exploited as WC animals for the 'pet trade'. Good luck with any eggs you get!

Matt

New baby AND new tortoises. Wow, you're gonna be busy!

Thanks, David! Well, I'll NEVER count a baby tort before the egg hatches, but it would be funny to have a nice sized clutch of emys along with a BUNCH of snakes, etc this season to pile on with the 'real' baby and just put me over the top!

All the best-

Matt

>>New baby AND new tortoises. Wow, you're gonna be busy!

Congratulations on the eggs. I am just glad that someone is enthusiastic about their animals and can stick to it for 11 years. I hope that they all hatch and are healthy and you can tell us how to incubate them.

Matt,

A very big congratulations. That is an amazing clutch size. The best of luck with the hatching of them.

Ed
-----
Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Matt, Congrads on your emys eggs.You can incubate them at 84F -2F on moist vermiculite.They should hatch in 64 days.All the books and papers are wrong on emys emys egg laying.I had a 25lb.er lay 60eggs thats more than my 75lb phayrei.So you see if you read all the books like bubble boy you wont know the latest knowage.I am working on a book on Manouria now,so let me know what happens.Its not how old they are its the weight they are to have eggs.Good luck,and let me know when they hatch there are some tricks to improve your hatch persentage.You will be defying the destiny of that animal by hatching those eggs because if they are band from export they will ALL die in the wild from explotation for the food trade to China.Vic Morgan

Hey Vic! Much appreciated on your reply. I'm the guy in Daytona that has the Elongata babies on steroids (if you recall there was one you REALLY liked last year there).

>>Matt, Congrads on your emys eggs.You can incubate them at 84F -2F on moist vermiculite.They should hatch in 64 days.

Okay, great. I had to take them into the house since my herp room does not go below 86 degrees.

>All the books and papers are wrong on emys emys egg laying.I had a 25lb.er lay 60eggs thats more than my 75lb phayrei.

VERY interesting! I'm going to get her dimensions soon. Been REAL busy here (new baby boy as of last week).

>I am working on a book on Manouria now,so let me know what happens.

Chuck mentioned that on the phone the other day. Should be a GREAT book of actual first hand breeding/keeping knowledge and observations! Put me down for a copy.

> You will be defying the destiny of that animal by hatching those eggs because if they are band from export they will ALL die in the wild from explotation for the food trade to China.

It's almost funny since I pretty much 'shelved' this project. Now, after 11 years, EGGS!!! I hope to hatch some as I agree they are likely in major trouble in the wild. Probably will give those 'rare' Stars a run for their money on the way to (functional) extinction.

Thanks, Vic!

Matt

* * * FLASH * * *
!! W-O-W !! Huevos in da kooker, da kine "MAN CHILD"
in da bassinet !! How proud you must be, as we ALL are for you
and the missus !! Right on, 'lil buddy !! Ya'know, you're a
wonderful example of someone doing things right !! Pleasure
to know youse !! Regardz, TATTOO PETE

Tanks, Petey! Been REAAAAAAAAAAAL buzzzy here. Sorry I did not get in touch with the new flash (baby boy arrived). Now to just hatch out some of these new fangled Burmard Montain Turtlesis.

Matt

>>* * * FLASH * * *
>> !! W-O-W !! Huevos in da kooker, da kine "MAN CHILD"
>>in da bassinet !! How proud you must be, as we ALL are for you
>>and the missus !! Right on, 'lil buddy !! Ya'know, you're a
>>wonderful example of someone doing things right !! Pleasure
>>to know youse !! Regardz, TATTOO PETE

You know that you have to give me one of them little guys when they hatch.

ONLY if you keep the little rascal! If you ever get tired of it, I'd be happy to take 'em back. But, I will NOT count on torts before they may hatch. Time will tell...

Matt

>>You know that you have to give me one of them little guys when they hatch.

I could never keep one of those dinosaurs!
Now maybe one of your banana headed, low brow, trash tortoise elongata.........

>> I could never keep one of those dinosaurs!
>>Now maybe one of your banana headed, low brow, trash tortoise elongata.........

NO comment! Quit threatening me, Carl. Hahahaha...

Matt

you're saying that she protects her nest?!?! this is in my understanding unheard of in modern reptiles aside from "living dinosaurs" like alligators and crocodiles.

and the burmese are "living dinosaurs" in their own right as i just read on chelonia.org:

"They are also considered the most ancient genotype of tortoise still living, so in a Burm, you really do have a prehistoric animal."

this being the case, this "holdover" behavior is terribly interesting! do you know of any other tortoises that do this? or just these guys?

>>you're saying that she protects her nest?!?! this is in my understanding unheard of in modern reptiles aside from "living dinosaurs" like alligators and crocodiles.

That's how I 'view' the behavior. Similar to a croc. Plus, the eggs are leathery when deposited, they are not hard shelled! VERY wild...

>>this being the case, this "holdover" behavior is terribly interesting!

It is indeed! She did come right off the mound and promptly attempt to bite my calf. She meant business too!

>> do you know of any other tortoises that do this? or just these guys?

I think these are it. Someone else may know of another species, but I've never heard of it. Maybe M. impressa, but not much is known about them at all. Heck, there is probably less known about them than ANY other tort species out there. I could be wrong about that, but that's the 'vibe' I get when talking to other tort folks who know a bit more about all the species. M. impressa is a ghost!

Neat stuff.

Matt

... if, in the event that this were a "nature" scenario where the eggs hatch in the nest, the mother would have anything to do with them? whould she still be protective, or would she go back to business as usual... it would be neat if she helped to free them from the nest like gators/crocs...

you should show her the babies after they hatch and see how she reacts!

>>... if, in the event that this were a "nature" scenario where the eggs hatch in the nest, the mother would have anything to do with them? whould she still be protective, or would she go back to business as usual... it would be neat if she helped to free them from the nest like gators/crocs...

Usually they defend for about 3 up to 20 days.

>>you should show her the babies after they hatch and see how she reacts!

Actually, I won't. Why? Elongata are known to eat ground born offspring (pers. comm years ago with another Elongata keeper) and I would not be surprised at all if Burms did the same thing. Smells good... EAT IT!

Matt

so you're saying that she'd protect them to a point... then all bets are off?

I've done that several times.I placed a hatchling still in egg in a phayrei's nest when she was not watching.She just rumbled by paying no mind to her little offspring.Would'nt that have been a mind blower if she would have tryed to help it or something! I'm just glad she did'nt crush it!Vic

i suppose that the old prehistoric holdover behaviors in these guys aren't nearly as pronounced as in gators/crocs, then... though seeing a mother tortoise having an active response to her offspring (BESIDES eating them!) would be adorable. nest protecting in and of itself blows my mind.

thanks for your responses, guys; this behavior is amazing to me and i've *really* enjoyed learning something new (even if it is a "trash tortoise" ).

>>thanks for your responses, guys; this behavior is amazing to me and i've *really* enjoyed learning something new (even if it is a "trash tortoise" ).

Thanks for being interested in these trash torts! Hey, that's what a forum is all about. Positive, constructive ideas and info. Challenge to a topic/info is fine, but when it become inflammatory or 'arrogant', well, people get 'angry' and others lose interest. Rodney King said it best: "Can't we all just get along?!?!".

Matt