Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm about to receive a baby male spider tomorrow, and was just perusing the classifieds and ran across someone's saying something about his breeder spider not having any tremors or other strange neurological activities like some spiders do. What's up with that statement? Are spiders occasionally defective like that? If so, when do such things begin showing themselves? This is my first 'higher end' bp investment and I want to be prepared for all possibilities. Thanks for any input.
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Chance Duncan
www.rivervalleyexotics.com

I've heard of spiders that have whats described as head shakes!?!I don't know much beyond that but i'm really hoping some one can go into some detail!!!!!!!
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Dave

www.DNReptiles.com
Myspace/DNReptiles
Myspace/blog

He's referring to the whole issue around spiders regarding neurological defects known as "spinning." Affected animals do just that- spin - as they move about and appear disoriented. There are some with less severe cases where their head shakes constantly when moving, a similar movement to the shaking you might see in a snake with a strong feeding response right before it eats.

I've talked to a few reputable breeders about this issue and anyone who has any questions or wants the complete story I encourage to contact NERD, VPI, RDR, etc.

From what I've been told, very few spiders out of the whole exhibit this trait. Moreover, some spiders exhibit this trait as babies and grow into perfectly normal adults. I've also heard of other spinners that are so bad they never make it past their first meal and that's unfortunate.

I'm skeptical about the whole spinning spider, kinking caramel, etc issues because we as keepers of these high end animals pay much more attention to these individuals, and its only natural that one would make an association of a defect with a particular morph without considering the possibility that its just as prevalent in normals everywhere. Those who have one normal male ball python with a kinked tail or exhibits mild spinning traits probably just thinks their bp is special and the abnormality goes unreported; all the while every little thing is picked apart about individuals that are a certain morph.

As a buyer, be educated about the issues and only deal with people who are honest about these things and allow you to make a an educated decision on whether or not to purchase the animal.

the head shaking/spinning issue with spiders has been around since they were first made available. In the beginning people thought it was from Kevin trying to make a super and all the inbreeding that was done to accomplish this. However, many generations later they still do it, not some, ALL. some have such a minor shake you have stare at them for hours to see it shake once. Last year in daytona i was in the market for a spider and was going to look for one that didn't shake, I could not find one anywhere, and that's out of the hundreds that were at the show. I've seen some babies born from the worst shakers there are and some of the babies shake minimally. It is true, as they get older the minor shakers seem to grow out of it and after around 800g or so, you won't see it anymore. My spider shakes some while he is in his tub and crawling but when you take him out I have yet to see him exhibit this behavior, strange isn't it? In my opinion this is one the nicest morphs around and the minor problem with shaking if it doesn't affect it's eating, breeding, or well being than it's not an issue to me. Granted I have seen the babies that shake/spin soo bad they cannot eat and those have always been euthanized and I would do the same if I ever produce one. Hope this helps.
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Josh Hutto
J&K Reptiles

2.3 het pied (RDR, alan bosch x 2, BHB x 2)
1.0 Spider Ball python (Ballroom pythons south)
1.0 Vanilla Ball Python (Gulf Coast)
0.1 High Contrast Albino (Gulf Coast)
1.1 het albino (ben siegel, Gulf Coast)
1.2 het citrus ghost(Gulf Coast line)
1.0 citrus ghost (Gulf Coast line)
1.1 graz pastel female
Alot of normal BP females (some not so normal)
2 various corns
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa (alan bosch)
1.0 american pit bull terrier
1.1 taco dogs (ankle biters)
1.0 grey cat
0.1 bearded dragons

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

I have two females and neither one of them have a head shake. As a baby one of them did the 'zero in on the food thing' but she grew out of it within a month or two.

My one early august '05 baby that didn't start eating until the begining of september is now about 1000 grams and the other is at about 650 grams. This morph pounds food, that's for sure.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy spiders and neither do any of the breeders out there, so it can't be that bad...
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Matt Lerer
'Ghi Reptiles'
ghireptiles.com

that's exactly what I am saying, if breeders like RDR, NERD, Gulf Coast are buying and using their females to produce these animals when they could be using them for other projects then why shouldn't we, look how many have been bought and bred in the last couple years, if there was a problem with the snake and they were dying we would have heard about it by now.
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Josh Hutto
J&K Reptiles

2.3 het pied (RDR, alan bosch x 2, BHB x 2)
1.0 Spider Ball python (Ballroom pythons south)
1.0 Vanilla Ball Python (Gulf Coast)
0.1 High Contrast Albino (Gulf Coast)
1.1 het albino (ben siegel, Gulf Coast)
1.2 het citrus ghost(Gulf Coast line)
1.0 citrus ghost (Gulf Coast line)
1.1 graz pastel female
Alot of normal BP females (some not so normal)
2 various corns
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa (alan bosch)
1.0 american pit bull terrier
1.1 taco dogs (ankle biters)
1.0 grey cat
0.1 bearded dragons

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

Mine does not have head shakes, wobble, spin, or anything else.

Never saw my adult male do it.
Never saw his thee offspring do it.
My breeder male.

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RicK @ BbI

Ball Boutique,Inc.
Proud sponsor of this forum

I just wanted to thank everyone for all their input on this issue. It sounds like something that is common among the morph, though not necessarily rampant. I'm not really concerned, I just wanted to be prepared if my little does it. Thanks again.
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Chance Duncan
www.rivervalleyexotics.com