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I posted a message a few days ago about what I thought might be an egg-bound Florida King. As a follow-up, my Vet said it wasn't egg-bound and also said he wasn't sure if he felt any eggs in it (but it is 4 1/2 foot in length and has a larger than average girth so he said they may just be hard to detect). This snake is visually larger/thicker from about the mid-point in her body right down to her tail and looks gravid to me (she definitely is "larger-looking" from the mid-point back than another, smaller king that laid 5 eggs this year and was caught about the same time).

So, my question would be how long to wait as I am just keeping this girl until she lays her eggs and then am going to release her. As an FYI, she was wild-caught this year at the very end of March near the south end of Lake Okeechobee along a ditch bank that is in an area with a good (above-average) population of kingsnakes (so there is little to no doubt that she had encountered males during the approx. two months of breeding season prior to her capture). She also has fed extremely well right from the start but refused two meals (for the first time) about 14 and 7 days ago and then ate a small meal 2 days ago (and just shed 3 days ago).

Any input/advice re: when I should "give up"??

Thanks,

Tim
Sarasota, Florida

> she was wild-caught this year at the very end of March

I suspect that she would have ether layed by now or have died if she was gravid when collected. It's been over 3 months.
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3.0 WC; 0.1 CB L. getula californiae
0.1 CB L. pyromelana pyromelana
0.1 WC Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata (gravid)

btw - 3 months may be too long to release her and have her survive.
I don't know - but I suspect it's too long. I would seriously suggest finding a local herper who is willing to take her in.
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3.0 WC; 0.1 CB L. getula californiae
0.1 CB L. pyromelana pyromelana
0.1 WC Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata (gravid)

I've caught a few female kings down by the big lake at about the end of March, and only about half were gravid when found. The ones that did lay did so in Mid-April. I believe the end of March is within the window of when a female can lay her eggs, so she may have already done so. Then again, not every female will produce every year.

NO way she's gravid is my verdict. It has been FAR too long. But healthy she is. With her size she may have scared away a few possible suitors. . . A lot of larger ones ARE out there of course. I caught two mature females here in NC. on the same day (under the same piece of trash - unusual that there was NO MALE) and only one of them laid eggs.
As a matter of fact I found NO male eastern kings this year (I didn't go herping too much though). I found all females (5 of them). Kind of weird, as I usually find mostly males. . .

Zee
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

Thanks so much for all the input -- I had just assumed that all wild females would breed every year (or carry-over sperm from the previous year). Next year, I'll be sure to try indroducing a local male to any wc females in case "the event" didn't happen in the wild.

BTW, the other female I found this year (in the first week of April) laid her clutch in mid-June (only 3 good eggs though -- I'm sure it was her first time being bred as she is just under 3 1/2 feet in length).

Do Florida Kings naturally double-clutch (those that laid early in the season) or is that achieved only through a specific captive breeding program regime?

Also, is there an issue with releasing a Florida King after it has been in captivity a few months? (I had never heard that before)

Issue with releasing besides that it is illegal?? You would be viewed the same as someone letting a burm go. You took the snake from the wild and it can not be released by Fl law. It has had contact with your collection and may have picked something up.

As far as her being gravid, she may have ova in her. I have brought this up before but nobody wants to discuss it. I believe that many of the heavy females in captivity carry ova overwinter. The cane fields are almost like captivity with the amount of food available. I sold a female to Matt (The Ox) that looked to be full of ova for two seasons but never laid any eggs. She doubled this year.

Double clutching is a direct result of food intake. Food equals eggs. Warmer temps help as well and a second intro to a mlae doesn't hurt though it is not needed.

> Double clutching is a direct result of food intake. Food equals
> eggs. Warmer temps help as well and a second intro to a mlae
> doesn't hurt though it is not needed.

I've not heard of a kingsnake double-clutching w/o mating for the second round. Can they really keep sperm and/or fertilized eggs that long?
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3.0 WC; 0.1 CB L. getula californiae
0.1 CB L. pyromelana pyromelana
0.1 WC Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata (gravid)

First you may consider this, females must be in condition before they can breed. So what is, in condition? To be in condition is to have internal body fat sufficient to enlarge the ovum. Without this, they cannot enlarge the tiny ovum.

Many reptiles carry ovum in the ovaries at all times, once they are mature. That is, unless totally stressed and in horrible shape. These little ovum are in the "ready" position in the ovaries. Once the female is ready(in condition) and the enviornmental conditions are condusive. She will reproduce.

In nature and in captivity, it only takes a few heavy feedings to condition a female. In nature, they feed heavily, then go to the coolest temps they can, to conserve this energy. In captivity, most keepers do not allow this, they often only allow cool temps in winter. The reality is, they use cool to conserve year-a-round.

This is one reason why captives must eat so darn much, They have to just to balance out the energy that is lost. Cheers

Frank I got a thought for you up top.

Later Jason

These things I offer you are indeed easy for you to see for yourself.

You can go snake hunting and instead of looking for live snakes, look for dead ones. Then cut them open and check out the condition of their reproductive glands. Do this at various times of the year.(as much as possible). Don't leave out the small ones, you will be surprised.

Also check out dead captives, yours(if any) and other keepers. Heck I used to get dead snakes from petshops and such. That way, you can compare the ovaries in snakes in horrible conditions, to yours and to wild ones. Make sure you note the physical condition of the wild ones, they are not all the same. Cheers