Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Do you find FT feeders feed better and more consistently than live feeders?
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

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Vince Pramuk

Out of the 80 or so BPs that we currently have, only about 20 will take f/t. Those are my best feeders period, whether f/t or live, but they all feed stronger on live than f/t.
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Louis Kirkland
Cornerstone Reptiles

>>Out of the 80 or so BPs that we currently have, only about 20 will take f/t. Those are my best feeders period, whether f/t or live, but they all feed stronger on live than f/t.

You confused me a bit. Do your FT feeders feed better and more consistently?
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

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Louis Kirkland
Cornerstone Reptiles

Every ball python in my collection eats frozen thawed rats. I dont have ANY that eat live. And rarely do they NOT accept food. I start ALL babies on frozen thawed pink rats ONLY NEVER feed live to babies and they are always consistent feeders throughout life. My ball pythons jump out of the cage for F/T. If I have babies that dont eat frozen thawed I usually give them away for free I have no time for them. However the adults I breed that are f/t feeders usually produce strong F/T feeding babies. I dont buy live feeding balls and I only breed F/T feeders. But hey thats just me. Live rats are a pain.

Thanks for your input! Do you have a large collection? How long does it take to get your hatchlings on FT? What techniques (if any) do you use?
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

I have to use both live and f/t. I would love it if all my BP's ate f/t but only about 2/3 consistently will. Most of my babies willingly took f/t on their second feed after initially being fed a live fuzzy mouse. I was unable to get any hatchlings to feed on f/t without first offering a live food item. I have some adults and yearlings that I did not raise from hatchlings and those make up the majority of my live only feeders. Most of the yearlings I did raise from hatchlings still eat f/t with no problems. I have one adult female that will only eat f/t large mice now, she used to eat anything. I also have a couple snakes that will wrap a f/t up and then not eat it. Those particular snakes bins are labeled IDIOT so I know to check and be prepared to feed them live(they will swallow live). I always try to feed the live eaters f/t hoping they will switch- they seldom do. Andy Paulison.

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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

>>Do you find FT feeders feed better and more consistently than live feeders?
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>>Jay A. Martin
>>Jay Martin Reptiles

I have had enough 'accidents' from live food given under supervised conditions over the years that I long ago stopped using live food unless forced to. Had a 15 year old bp die from a mouse nipping him while he was constricting the mouse...have had that kind of thing happen without problems with other snakes, but that particular incident .... the minor bite led to an unforseen systemic blood infection and the snake was dead 3 days later. Had a black rat snake come pretty close to being dead after a mouse got to him. Having learned the lesson from the BP a few years earlier, this snake was prescribed antibiotics for 2 weeks by the vet asap. The systemic infection he suffered caused him to ultimately loose a few good size chunks of flesh long various parts of his body where the infection settled along and gangrene had set in. The quickness of getting the snake on antibiotics was probably the only thing that saved his life and took 6 months to fully recover from the effects of the infection. Had a burmese that got a good chunk of it's upper gum ripped out by a rat. The snake had a perfect kill on that rat and yet that rat was still able to either rip the gum by tooth or claw so fast it wasn't seen. Only realized afterwards once the snake ate the rat that his mouth was leaking blood. Again, a good course of antibiotics was given. No infection set in thankfully. That 1 death and 2 close calls were enough for me to just switch everyone over to F/T from there on out. I stopped giving live unless I really had a problem with a snake switching, but eventually everyone switched over.

I've taken in 2 bp rescues in the last couple years that supposedly would "only eat live mice" according to the respective owners. One snake was a 10 year old pet I took in 3 years ago (kids had gone off to college and father was moving cross country and didn't want it with him). The other one I took in this past May & was told had been purchased from a pet store back in 2001 making it 5 years old but I would say is really little more than a year old from its size. I have a feeling on that 2nd snake the kid bought it without parent's knowledge and got busted for it and told to get rid of it fast lol. Anyways, being told that they were live mouse eaters that "refused rats" I expected them to give me some trouble. However, to my surprise both snakes took F/T without so much as blink of an eye. The older snake is actually addicted to rats, but will take F/T mice if that's all I have and she will give me dirty looks the whole time and snubb me for a couple days afterwards. There was only one time that she turned down a meal since I have had her and that was because she was within 2 weeks of laying a clutch of infertile eggs. I haven't tried F/T mice on the newer bp as of yet so don't know if he'd be as accomodating to food switches in times of need....but he's certainly proven consistant when it comes to food. The baby is a downright bottomless gut. If I were to offer him a rat every day he would slurp them up lol.

The only thing that hasn't been 100% consistant with feedings of F/T is how the snakes want the food presented to them. Sometimes they feel the urge to attack the food and constrict it like it were alive while other times they are just lazy and take the food and swallow immediately...their mood shifts from week to week regarding that lol.
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PHWyvern

My personal collection, I feed only live rodents.
Lately, with all the talk about F/T, animals I post for sale, I give them F/T to see if they eat, and when they do, I relay that information in the ad. For example: ADult 3000g female, feeding on live and F/T.
But, my animals, that I have no plans on selling, I don't bother with F/T. To much of a hassle.
Ron
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Ron Billingsley
www.ronbillingsleyreptiles.com

I raise my rodents, both rats and mice, so I have all sizes available. I find that hatchlings feed best on live fuzzies because they need to see movement. As soon as I get them feeding well on live fuzzies, I switch to rat pups, live. Live rat pups can be left in the cage without concern for harm to the snake. When my animals attain some size and I begin feeding them small rats, I ALWAYS "thump" or "stun" the feeder first before offering it to the snake off of long hemistats. I know what damage a rat can do, so it is best to have it compromised before offering it to your ball python. Then once the snake has grabbed it and wrapped it, I look closely to make sure none of those rat incisors are sunk into my snake in any way before closing the cage drawer. I have tried f/t but find it is such a hassle to thaw first and warm them up.........too time consuming for me! But at the same time, I have to say that my weekly job of cleaning nearly 100 pans of rats and mice is NOT MY FAVORITE job to do!

>But at the same time, I have to say that my weekly job of cleaning nearly 100 pans of rats and mice is NOT MY FAVORITE job to do!
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This is what kills me. 90% of my snake time is dealing with my rat colonies. That is making the hobby considerably less fun.
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

cleaning rodents cages than taking care of the snakes then you are definitly a rodent breeder and a snake breeder second. I hate cleaning rodents cages. F/T allows for being care taker of the snakes not the rodents. In my opinion.
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Kyle J. Stevens
Royal Variations Ltd.

Many a false step is made from standing still.

I agree 100%. That is why I'm slowly but surely converting to FT. I just need some tips to get the hatchlings going since they have already started arriving.
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

Jay,

Good for you! You will enjoy your snakes more and the F/T is wonderful once you switch them. I still feed my hatchlings live just to kick start their feeding responses. Once they go for F/T they forget any other way or at least my collection has for a few years now. The most important thing is that it is worth it! Let us know how your switch to F/T goes. Again good luck and happy thawing!
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Kyle J. Stevens
Royal Variations Ltd.

Many a false step is made from standing still.

i feed live to my balls but i was reading what you do with your rat by thump or stun but i hate to sound like a wus but i hate to do that. i am a little nervous about feeding live sometimes but i do watch as much as possible. i probably will use the co2 method when i need to feed bigger but for now i guess i will take my chances. just curious how do you stun your rats? is it the traditional against the wall or something different? finally once you stun you put the rat at the end of hemostat? doesnt the rat move around like he wants to obviously get away or is he just dazed and doesnt move?
thanks.

Jay,
I have posted a few times regarding feeding f/t and like to hear from others who do so. I have a small collection of balls (3 males and 10 females) and feed only f/t. I would love to know if they would be feeding better on live and sometimes think that is my problem when they go off feed. Would they be feeding better if I fed live? I have rarely offered live and when I do it's usually just one feeding or two to the long term fasters or newly aquired snakes not accepting f/t right away. They have all eventually accepted f/t. This is great but last fall was my first year having a female large enough to breed and she decided not to eat much all summer and was somewhat thin during breeding season. She was the disposal for two years and would take anything offered. She weighed about 1800 grams but was thin overall though she bred quite a few times.
Anyway, I'm not quite answering your question but feel that I may be getting a better feeding response if feeding live.
Glenn

The female did'nt produce any eggs possibly due to low weight during breeding. If I fed her live would she have been a better feeder, even though she was my disposal for the first two years of her life?
Just pondering,
Glenn

One other important point in feeding live food to Ball Pythons is that they often will switch feeding preference from rats to mice. I have had a number of great feeders just abruptly stop feeding. In an effort to get them to feed, I will try mice on normal rat-feeders. Many times this tactic works. Currently I have an adult female Pastel and adult male Ghost who have "switched". These animals will eat almost daily if I offer large mice to them!

hatchlings which I start out on live and then switch to F/T. My collection is on F/T and they are slamming the cages when I approach with the F/T. My approach is to feed more often and smaller rodents. This approach "for me" keeps them ready to feed. Some of the animals were not easy to get on F/T. I had to feed them live and often to switch them to F/T. Only my hatchlings are on live until they switch to F/T. I hate cleaning rodent cages and I hate spending as much or more time cleaning rodent cages than the time it takes to care for the snakes. I use to feed only live years ago. Stench, urine, and allot of time cleaning. I personally feel that it is a waste of time but that is just my opinion. The snakes are content and fat.
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Kyle J. Stevens
Royal Variations Ltd.

Many a false step is made from standing still.

Kyle,
May I ask how you thaw and prepare your f/t feeders and also what time of day you feed?
Thanks,
Glenn

Glenn,

I place the rodents in zip lock bags "heavy duty" so the water does not seep into the bags. I have a large laundry sink which I put about five inches of "marm water" not hot. I leave the bags in the water for about 5 hours. I then drain the sink and add hot water from the tap. I let this stand at about five inches of water for around 20 minutes. This works for me but you might have to tweak it to your own needs. I then feel by touch the temp of each animal as I feed the snakes. If they feel cold at all I let them soak a while longer in the bags. That is rarely needed. Make sure that the rodents are not cold. The hot water warms them nicely but must not be overdone. You can easily tell if they are ready. This is the way I do it and I am sure that people have just as much success with their thawing of rodents but with different methods.

Sincerely, Kyle
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Kyle J. Stevens
Royal Variations Ltd.

Many a false step is made from standing still.

afternoon and or night. They do not seem to mind when they are fed.
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Kyle J. Stevens
Royal Variations Ltd.

Many a false step is made from standing still.

Kyle,
I feed in the evening always. Also, I warm th feeders under a heat lamp. It usually takes approx. 2 hours with a flip at 1 hour. Bulb is 60 watts and about 7 inches from the feeders. I've had pretty good luck with feeding f/t but sometimes wonder if feeding live would put more weight on them.
Thanks for your reply,
Glenn

I used to feed both (we had balls that would not touch f/t and some that didn't mind) but as of two months ago I have switched to 100% live.

Every time I go to feed now I can be assured that 90% of my collection take a rat instantly (the 10% that don't eat usually turn out to be going into shed). When I was feeding f/t I found that only 50% of the balls that would eat f/t would actually ingest a rat during a feeding.

Raising and breeding rats is definitely a pain but it's worth it to me because I can sleep better at night knowing that I have a collection that is healthy and feeding regularly! If my snakes prefer live, then I do too.

Interesting poll. Thanks,
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John Scully
Delphi Pythons
www.delphipythons.com (website coming soon)

All of the snakes in my collection from Corns and Rats to Boas and Balls eat F/T. I did feed freshly killed rats to my Boas when I first moved because nobody sold frozen rodents. Actually when I asked people at the local pet stores they looked at me like I was making up the frozen rat thing. I have since started ordering my rodents online.

The most I have to do is make sure the thawed rodent is warm and they get eaten with gusto. My Boas like them to be wiggled around with tongs, but my Balls strike and constrict them if I just lay them outside their hide.

I even found out that my breeding female Leopard Geckos that eat the occasional pinky will eat F/T.

One thing good about F/T is that the snake won't get spooked by a moving mouse or rat. I used to keep WC milksnakes as a kid and noticed that they ate F/T without out a problem but were scared of living mice.

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I started off by doing both. Every ball I bought was feeding on f/t or both live and f/t. Some ate very well, some skipped alot of meals. I figured out 2 of them that I thought where eating very well where just hiding the item under shavings. So in he end I would only thaw out about 10 mice and rats for 20 snakes... because the chances of me wasting some was very high. Most of them wouldnt eat them right away.... so I was forced to just leave them in there overnight... so the next day they stunk. With live, it forced me to check on them constantly for the next few hours if they didnt take it right away... but this rarly happens. The second a live mouse/gerbil/rat hits the cage I know their interest level.

Yup, I breed gerbils too, I found some of my BPs will refuse rats regularly, refuse mice rarly... and for those ocasions... I thow in a gerbil... and they almost always eat them... the gerbils just have a special way of freaking out... so the snake freaks out... and they only thing they snake can think to do is eat it... its actually very interesting... just make sure its not a mean gerbil... and watch those teeth!

Live all they way... everyone eats.

i only feed f/t myself.for a few reasons...1.safer for the animals.no bites are damage from rodent.2.dont have to deal with keeping live mice and rats,to much time taken away from snakes and other daily things.3.live rodents smell!no matter how often you clean.lol i had one sub adult female that i bought and was on live.she has finaly taken f/t for 3 weeks now,with a gusto!all my others feed no problem weekly or so unless in shed.
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Lee

I start my babies on live mice fuzzies or rat pinks which ever I have at the time. After about 5-6 good feedings I hold back food for a few weeks then offer FT and I've had almost 100% switch to FT this way. Most of my BP collection (about 40 total) feed on FT. I do have 2 larger females that take live meals a few times after their winter fast but go back to FT soon after. This has worked for me for 20yrs+ and the babies that need assist feeding never take live after they start feeding on their own. A live rodent scares the crap out of them LOL. I've had rats give some bad bites to snakes that didn't grab them just right so FT works best for me. I also feed fresh kill once in a while but not very often. If I receive a mouse feeder I switch them to rats ASAP, this has not been a problem for me.

also rat eaters feed better than mouse eaters, I hate mouse eaters.
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Nita Hamilton
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Ball Pythons
ballpythonworld.com