Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I posted this once but did not get a response, so reposting.

I was out of town and I stopped at a pet store, just curious what the area offered in the way of reptiles. There was only one pet store and the only one in the area that offered reptiles. Because of this, they were able to charge $80 for hatchling corns. They had a motley, but it had a grey head, like bloodred babies do. I found this odd. It did have a little design in the middle of the head, so the whole thing was not grey, but almost. any thoughts? Did I pass up something big? I just hated to buy a normal motley for $80. Especially since I already have motleys and some hatching. I was thinking maybe it was Het for the diffused pattern.....?
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****Misty****

"Yesterday was the deadline for all complaints"

The list keeps getting Smaller!
Not counting Hatchlings, this is what I have.........

1.1.2 bearded dragons
7.17.4 corn snakes
1.1.0 jungle corns
2.5.0 king snakes
1.0.0 Sinaloan milk snake
0.1.0 Tri-Hybrid milk snake
0.1.0 rat snake
1.1.0 Leucistic rat snakes
1.1.0 Congo African Grey Parrots
0.1.0 German Shepherd hybrid dog

I'm just guessing here, but I had just called a guy who I bought babies off of last year. I asked if he had any bloodreds, and he said no, he just uses them to mix with other snakes.

So, MAYBE, somewhere it had some bloodred in it. But how much, and to what extent I have no idea.

This is a problem I mentioned before. In 20 years we may have 3-5 different ways to get to the same phase of snake. Toss in hybrids,, well I hope they make a portable DNA tester soon! lol
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Why does everyone still believe the world is round, when we know it is flat?
(Me)

1.3 Bearded Dragons Eenie, Meanie, Minie and Moe is the Male

2 baby female Western hognose, 2.3 adults some friend some mine) All Named George

Corn snakes
bloodred 0.1 Christal Blue Persuasion
earthtone 0.1 Wind and Fire
creamcicle 0.1 Sherbert

Amazona ochrocephala oratrix 0.1? Pretty Girl
Amazona ochrocephala auropalliata 1.1? Carol - Male, Foghorn Leghorn - Female
Amazona aestiva 1.0? Miss Prissy
Ara ararauna 0.1 April
2.0 Dogs, Michigan, Doc
0.2 Cats,, Sassie and Spooky (all black cat)
0.1 Wives, (Long term captive!,, I mean ME!) I call her (BOSS)
1.1 Kids (Paininthearsius takamemonii) J/K great kids
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tom

www.herpzilla.com

Would need photo to id.

As far as I know, there are still no motley bloodreds in existence. A few of us are working on them (my eggs all went bad due to stupid human error!!!!), but no one has produced a VERIFIED double homozygous animal (both the episkiastic AND the motley pattern mutations) as of yet.

So, it would be really doubtful that one would find such an animal in a pet shop. It COULD be, but I wouldn't dare to hazzard a guess as to how unbelievably high the odds would be.

As to the motley gene, well, it does often produce hatchlings with the same greyish colored head that you find in bloodreds. However, I have found that most motley babies with the gray heads usually lack the "skull" markings often seen on bloodred/episkiastic babies.

Without a picture, it would be difficult to say, and it might be impossible to say for sure, even with a picture. Why? Well, as I said, no one has produced a verified double mutant, so no one (of whom I am aware) knows with absolute certainty what one would look like.
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Darin Chappell
Hillbilly Herps
PO Box 254
Rogersville, MO 65742

Good point. But some breeders are not going after a particular effect like that. They just throw stuff together. And if you beleave in the law of SNAFU, someone would probably accidently do it before the person who is trying so hard to reach that point.

Plus some of the breeders have so many snakes, and so little records. Which is ok, but you can not relie on that for breeding stock on projects like yours.

True?

Sure...

That's why I said it COULD be a motley bloodred there in the pet shop, but that the odds against it were, in my opinion, stacked against that being the case. The reason I think this is true is because of two factors: Money and Time.

Money:

Until very recently, bloodreds simply weren't as widely bred as they are today. In the not too distant past, bloodreds were known among most hobbyists as picky lizard eaters that might just starve themselves to death before ever accepting a mouse. Combine that with the fact that bloodreds are the original morph among our snakes that has kept its prices relatively high (even today, blood hatchlings routinely fetch between $75 and $100), and you have a recipe for not as many do-it-yourself breeders to have them as they have other morphs. Of course, today, there are more and more of them out there, but that brings me to the next point...

Time:

It takes usually two years, sometimes three, for hatchlings to mature to breeding age, as we all know. Even if you assume that a breeder had a BR and a motley of opposite sexes, that were mature, threw them in together, and produced viable eggs...you would STILL have to have another 2-3 years before those F2 snakes were then bred to one another, whipped murphy's odds, and produced a motley bloodred. Even if that DID happen, it would still be another 2-3 years before that F3 could be paired with BOTH a bloodred AND a motley to prove it was double homozygous, and even that might not get it done in one breeding season (murphy again).

So, I still submit that it is unlikely that anyone other than those few who have put the time, money, and effort into this project to have a verified motley bloodred. If it has been done, I still haven't heard of it. But even if it has occured, the then further unlikelihood that those F3 snakes are being sold in a pet shop for $80 bucks is...well, improbable.

It COULD be. I just really, REALLY doubt it.
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Darin Chappell
Hillbilly Herps
PO Box 254
Rogersville, MO 65742

I agree with that.

But I'm easy, but not cheap! lol

Tom