Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was just wondering how many mice most people end up wasting in a regular week due to them not being eaten.

I used to offer uneaten mice to snakes with bigger appetites but with all the dissease scares around I cannot take that chance ever again.

In an avg week I am thowing out usually 15 or more hopper/small mice which are not eaten. This is roughly 1/4 of what I thaw out every single time. Part of the problem is very picky feeders which I am trying to convert over from live-killed to FT but having no luck with. I find it normal for 2-3 to refuse food due to shedding but it seems I always have irregular appetites in another 2-5 which I cannot explain at all. I jave cut feeding intervals back to 7 days from 5 but really no difference.

To date this has added up to a minimum of $40 a month flushed down the toilet .. is this normal for anybody? Also I cannot get around spending another $80 a month (& 4 annoying trips to the pet store) to feed my picky feeders pre-killed live mice. This is not to mention the hour I spend every week wiggling mice for 2-3 snakes just so they take the thawed. Does this sound a little ridiculous to anybody else?

Any tips to pick up appetite and convert the others over to thawed would be GREATLY appreciated. Hell I could almost throw a couple hundred dollars to anybody that can help me here - joking but honestly it would save me a HUGE-HUGE-HUGE amount of hassle and stress; maybe thousands of dollars in the long run.

well im not trying to criticize(sp) but you said on average you throw out 15 or more mice a week which adds up to 60 or more mice a month..correct, and you said thats about 40 dollers a month gone. that adds up to 1.50 per mouse. i just ordered my mice from micedirect.com and i got 750 mice (700pinks and 50 adults) for about 110 shipped which equals basiccaly 9 cents each. you might want to try a diferant source for your mice to save you money first off.
second thing is you can try taking some bedding from the live mice cages and cleaning the f/t with dawn soap and water then placing the f/t in the live mice bedding it might help
third you could try heating the f/t up to 1o5 degrees and then offering it to your snakes.
if your snakes are still refusing you could refreeze the f/t a couple of times which would kill MOST passible viruses. or you could put them in individually marked bags for each reluctant feeder.
i hope this helps
adam
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hybrid breeders association
0.1. normal corn het hypo,anery
1.0. snow corn het hypo,anery,amel
1.0. amel corn unknown hets(4ft 8inch long)
1.0 sinacorn
1.1 kenyan sand boas
0.1 mbk
0.1 albino nelsons
0.2 normal leo geckos
1.0 blizzard leo gecko
0.0.1 snapping turtles
0.0.1 3 lined mud turtle

If you are talking about juveniles, I can see feeding them every week, but if you are talking about two year olds or older, I would definitely cut back to every ten to fourteen days.

Another trick you MIGHT want to consider is to slice the pinkies/fuzzies/whatevers in half lenthwise for picky eaters. That way you would only use 1/2 of the food and potentially only waste 1/2 of the item. If the snake eats it, then you could go with the other half. Otherwise, use that half to try on another picky eater. Of course, this only works if you are feeding frozen/thawed.

I also second buying mice/rats in bulk to save money. I stock up at shows to cut down costs.
Link

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sue

Thanks for the tips guys ..

The average 'wasters' will be yearlings in the fall. I wish I could buy mice cheaper but in Canada the lowest bulk price I have found is 60-70 cents for a hopper-small mouse. For live that is roughly doubled.

I guess if you want them to eat lots it is important to offer the extra mouse so I guess there is not much I can do considering the growth rates I am hoping for. If I could cut the waste down slightly and convert the picky guys I would be doing great I guess.

My main goal to save money & hassle will be converting the last few to thawed. Out of 34 I have 5 soon to be yearlings which just will not switch over. It seems no matter how I prepare the thawed mice they just refuse it no matter what.

Is this not the most frustrating part of this hobby: dealing with picky feeders!? Exact same food maybe even better but since it has been in the freezer they will NOT touch it.

I usually go through all my animals to make sure they aren't going to be starting a shed cycle (or already in one) and make up a "menu" of what I'm going to thaw out. You didn't mention how you are thawing out the mice, but if you are thawing them in water you have a couple of other options. Some snakes don't like water-logged mice. You can try thawing them at room temp. You can also try tease-feeding them the mouse (using tongs). Also, there's the option of poking a hole in the mouse's head and squeezing out some brain goo (gruesome, but it works). I've also used skinks to scent the mice to get some snakes to eat.
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Paul Weaver
Carolina Herps

Much like braining the mouse can help a pickey eater I found one of my hondos that seemed to only take live would take f/t if there was a cut in the stomach and some intestine showing. Maybe the smell was just too much to resist.

Good luck
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“There is a grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one; and that whilst this planet has gone on cycling according to the fixed laws of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved.” -C. Darwin, 1859

Natural Selection Reptiles

Before I thaw out rodents, I check all my snakes to see if any of them are opaque and unlikely to eat (some of my snakes will eat anyway). If they aren't going to eat, I just don't try to feed them.
Some of my snakes only get offered food every third or fourth feeding. And if I have a really difficult snake, I offer it food first and if it doesn't eat it, give it to one of my more predictable animals. They are all housed within a few feet of each other so I don't believe this increases the spread of disease.
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

I agree. I check everyone to make sure they're not in shed. Some, like the Rosies and Sand Boas, will not eat about a week before they even start to show any signs of shed.

My solution to uneaten hopper and adult mice: I was recently given two wild-caght snakes - an Sonoran Gopher and a Cal King. I don't thaw anything out for them when I feed everyone else. If anybody won't eat (which is almost every week), they get them. They're eating machines! If everybody eats, they get their meals thawed out the next day. Uneaten pinkies and fuzzies either go to other snakes that appreciate an added bonus to their weekly meal, or to the Frilled and Bearded Dragons. I don't think I'm saving any money, but at least no feeders are being wasted like they were before!
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Diego

Diego & Tiffany's Zoo:
SNAKES
3.4 Corn Snakes (Different morphs)
1.0.0 Boa Constrictor
0.1.0 Dumeril's Boa
0.1.0 Tangerine Honduran Milksnake
1.0.0 Honduran Milksnake
0.1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake
1.1.0 Ball Pythons
0.0.1 Ribbon Snake
1.1.0 Rosy Boas (Mexican & Mid Baja)
0.1.0 Pueblan Milksnake
1.2.0 Kenyan Sand Boas
1.0.0 Western Hognose
1.0.0 Albino San Diego Gopher Snake
0.1.0 Indonesian Dwarf Pacific Boa
1.1.0 Gray Banded Kingsnakes (River Road)
0.1.0 Desert Kingsnake
LIZARDS
1.0.0 Frilled Dragon
3.1.0 Bearded Dragons (2 Normal, 1 RedXGold, 1 Citrus)
0.1.0 Eastern Collared Lizard
0.1.0 Merauke Blue Tongue Skink
1.0.0 Turquoise Sunburst Veiled Chameleon
1.0.3 Leopard Geckos
1.1.0 Yellow Niger Uromastyx
1.1.0 Green Anoles
1.1.0 Bahama Anoles
FROGS
2.2.0 Southern Bell Frogs
1.0.1 Green Tree Frogs
0.0.2 Striped Walking Frogs
1.1.1 White's Tree Frogs

Similiar to Diego, I feed the "non" regular feeders usually late at night and then whomever doesn't eat, their food goes to the "regular" eaters early the next day. Since I started doing this I've had very minimal waste.

Scott
Scott Felzer's Garter Snakes

Even my Hognose and Ball Pythons don't give me too much trouble. Occasionally I try to give everybody 2 items and a few will only eat 1. But the uneaten pinks go either to my breeding Leopard Geckos or my rescue Savanna Monitor. And other sized prey go to my ever hungry Rat and Corn Snakes.

I would not worry about disease transmission in an established collection. However animals in quarantine are another thing entirely.

My collection is under a bit of a preventitive quarintine at the moment otherwise I would be sharing uneaten food.

It seems overall that most people do experience 1-2 in 10 that refuse (for whatever reason) and when you consider my numbers and the picky feeders my figures seem within reason. Looks like i need to convert the picky guys and offer less food overall if I am concerned about waste - considering my semi-quarinine and lack of options.

I have also found though that good feeders will take food in any phase of shed about half the time. Is this bad? I could see it making shedding difficult or stressful but I really like to keep meals consitant if possible for growth.

If you're really concerned about wasting, take the time to see who's shedding and recognize your best eaters.

I will feed snakes in the early stages of their shed, but if they're blatantly blue, I won't do it. Also, I have snakes that have already made that decision for me: they just flat-out refuse if they're anywhere close to shedding.

If you have snakes that continuosly refuse, try thawing out only their dinner first. If they do eat, thaw out mice for your "faithful" ones. If not, the good eaters eat, and the other ones wait.

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Diego

Diego & Tiffany's Zoo:
SNAKES
3.4 Corn Snakes (Different morphs)
1.0.0 Boa Constrictor
0.1.0 Dumeril's Boa
1.1.0 Rosy Boas (Mexican & Mid Baja)
1.1.0 Kenyan Sand Boas
0.1.0 Indonesian Dwarf Pacific Boa
0.1.0 Tangerine Honduran Milksnake
1.0.0 Honduran Milksnake
0.1.0 Pueblan Milksnake
1.2.0 Ball Pythons
1.0.0 Woma Python
0.0.1 Ribbon Snake
1.0.0 Western Hognose
1.0.0 Albino San Diego Gopher Snake
0.0.1 Sonoran Gopher Snake
0.1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake
1.1.0 Gray Banded Kingsnakes (River Road)
0.1.0 Desert Kingsnake
0.1.1 California Kingsnakes
1.0.0 Yellowtail Cribo
0.1.0 Blacktail Cribo

LIZARDS
1.0.0 Frilled Dragon
3.1.0 Bearded Dragons (2 Normal, 1 RedXGold, 1 Citrus)
0.1.0 Eastern Collared Lizard
0.1.0 Merauke Blue Tongue Skink
1.0.0 Turquoise Sunburst Veiled Chameleon
2.3.0 Leopard Geckos
1.1.0 Yellow Niger Uromastyx
1.1.0 Green Anoles
1.0.0 Bahama Anoles
FROGS
2.2.0 Southern Bell Frogs
1.0.1 Green Tree Frogs
0.0.2 Striped Walking Frogs
1.1.1 White's Tree Frogs

I saw a picture of a snake whose shed got stuck around a meal lump in its stomach. I think the short break for a shed cycle is good for the snakes that are eating consistantly.

As for the reluctants, I would thaw out far fewer each time. Start with them, and if any eat prepare to thaw out more for the others.
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