Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Excellent news.

First timer Storm has laid a clutch of 8 or so eggs.
She's a Pastel Motley. The only pics I have of her at the min are old ones.

Only problem is..... father unknown. It's gonna be a real surprise when they hatch.

Wow, she's beautiful! I can't wait to see what the babies look like. Whatever they are, I bet they'll be just as pretty as mom! Good luck!
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15 new babies!
1.0 Anery Corn-Astro
0.1 Normal Corn-Cheyenne
0.1 Amel Striped Corn-Becky
1.0 Creamsicle-Diablo
0.1 Hypo Corn-Echo
1.0 Snow Corn-Frosty
1.0 Dachshund-Sandy
0.1 Beagle-Josie
0.1 Tabby-Nicki
2.7 Rats

I have to ask this question. At the bottom of your post, you said father was unknown. How can you possibly not know the father?? Do you have multiple snakes together? I imagine if the clutch is a surprise, then you did not intentionally breed?
Just curious
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****Misty****

"Yesterday was the deadline for all complaints"

The list keeps getting Smaller!
Not counting Hatchlings, this is what I have.........

1.1.2 bearded dragons
7.17.4 corn snakes
1.1.0 jungle corns
2.5.0 king snakes
1.0.0 Sinaloan milk snake
0.1.0 Tri-Hybrid milk snake
0.1.0 rat snake
1.1.0 Leucistic rat snakes
1.1.0 Congo African Grey Parrots
0.1.0 German Shepherd hybrid dog

>>I have to ask this question. At the bottom of your post, you said father was unknown. How can you possibly not know the father?? Do you have multiple snakes together? I imagine if the clutch is a surprise, then you did not intentionally breed?
>>Just curious
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>>****Misty****
>>

I'm with Misty
You don't know who the father is?
Meaning you keep multiple snakes together?
You might want to do just a little more research.
Hey, I know, let's start with this.......

COHABITATION
MY OPINION

I feel it is best to keep snakes separate.
I know a lot of people keep multiple snakes together without problems and it can obviously be done without being detrimental to the snakes. I just feel the possible drawbacks need to be expressed.
When a person gets the experience and knowledge of each individual snake and wants to try co-habitation, it is up to them. They just need to be careful and able to read the subtle signs of their snakes.
There can be definite drawbacks.
If one snake becomes sick there is a very good likelihood the other/others will get sick as well.
It may also take a while (usually too long) to determine which one is the sick one.
If one regurgitates its food you won't know which one unless you happen to get lucky and see it.
If one has a problem stool you won't know which one. Once again one may have a problem but by the time you figure out which one the other/others could end up with the same problem.
Although this is only a slight possibility, it is still a possibility and has been know to happen, one snake could eat the other. The smell of a prey item could trigger one snake to eat the other. Or simple hunger accompanied by a ready food source.
Although uncommon, it has happened and is a possibility.
Another possibility is unwanted pregnancy. A female might get pregnant and you may not have the knowledge, desire or ability to incubate the eggs or raise the hatchlings. With hatchlings comes the responsibility to raise them or find them homes.
A lot of people rationalize by saying, "I will just put two males or two females together". That can work but mistakes can easily be made, especially with hatchlings. You could easily end up with a male and female.
There is also a chance of a female breeding too young or too small and becoming egg-bound. Although uncommon, it IS a possibility and can happen.
With multiple snakes in an enclosure you stand the chance of loosing all of them if there happens to be an avenue of escape. Instead of losing one you could loose two or more depending on how many you decide to place together.
One or both of the snakes could be stressed by the presence of the other. Stress can cause a drop in appetite and lead to other health problems as well.
People will put multiple snakes in an enclosure and ask why one isn't eating.
When they are told it is probably due to stress caused by the other snake, the response is almost always the same "they like each other, they are always under the same hide together". Well this probably just means "that" hide or area of the tank has the optimum conditions they are looking for.
Snakes do not LIKE each other or ENJOY each other’s company.
There is no capacity for snakes to "like" or "enjoy".
I have kept multiple snakes together without problems but have made a choice to keep them separate. There is NO clear argument on why you SHOULD keep them together but there ARE clear arguments as to why you SHOULD NOT.
So, in my opinion, although people do it successfully I just don't think it is worth the risk.
If you decide to keep multiple snakes together, watch closely for any signs of appetite loss, regurgitation or any kind of “personality” changes. These could all be signs of stress.
You would also want to feed them in separate containers and give them an hour or so before putting them back together.
My 2 cents

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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

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Jimmy,
Good going!!! That is exactly where to start!

Matt,
This is going to sound harsh but man, we have to breed stuff responsibly. Hopefully you can use this as a lesson. But I have to admit I'd look forward to seeing what comes out of those eggs!!!!

Pat

>>Jimmy,
>>Good going!!! That is exactly where to start!
>>
>>Matt,
>>This is going to sound harsh but man, we have to breed stuff responsibly. Hopefully you can use this as a lesson. But I have to admit I'd look forward to seeing what comes out of those eggs!!!!
>>
>>Pat

we do hope all goes well and would like to see updates as things progress I just thought a little additional information could only help.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

_____

Thanks for all your comments. It is helpful to get a broad range of opinions.

I guess I should provide a little background info. My pastel motley... aka Storm was brought around October last year. She was originally thought to be under a year old. Unfortunately in the UK most reptile stockist’s are general pet shops. They tend to provide very very little information regarding the history of a snake. Reptiles appear to be sold as a sideline… normally to draw in customers (especially children) who inevitably end up buying other, less unusual pets. The shop in question has a bad reputation… I think it has now had its licence removed for the sale of reptiles. I would not normally buy any livestock from this store but I figured Storm to be a little unusual.

I have since decided that she was probably a slow eater as a hatchling and most likely born in 2004. She is considerably bigger now than my yearlings and has grown immensely in confidence. She initially used to curl up as tight as possible and hide her head.

She was also sold as a male.

After a quarantine period she was moved into co-habitation with my 3 yearlings. 2 normals (m and f) and one amel (m.) Recently she was observed to be breeding with the yearlings, which after consideration I decided was not a good idea. Therefore she was moved into a 5 foot viv housing my two 6 year old adults (m and f.) At this point she was believed to be a male. I intend to separate my snakes off into pairs in several 4 foot vivs later on in the year.

Last Friday’s eggs are a good indication that she is infact female. Lol.

So the father could be one of 3 snakes.

Jake – normal adult
Tony – normal yearling
Captain Scarlet – Amel yearling.

Jimmy – I appreciate your “2 cents” and it has been very useful. There were a few points that I had not considered regarding stools etc. I think the water between us has divided our views on this. From my experience in the UK it is completely acceptable for Corn snakes to co-habit. One example is the Isle of Wight Zoo… who have an enclosure with a glass front decked out to resemble a potting shed. There are many corn snakes of varying sizes and ages that co-habit in this exhibit.

I admit that when I sell my hatchlings each year I always advise against keeping corn snakes together, especially if the customer is a beginner.

Now I may be out of my depth with this next point and I’m not questioning your expertise but I was quite interested in seeking some further info. In your post you forwarded the following comment
Snakes do not LIKE each other or ENJOY each other’s company.
There is no capacity for snakes to "like" or "enjoy".

Is there any hard evidence of this?

Responsibility – Obviously I am disappointed that I do not know the father. As a corn snake breeder I document any attempts at breeding so that I can replicate the situation if I want to. The fact of the matter is that I was not expecting them to breed at such a young age. My previous experience led me to believe that they generally would not breed until at least the age of two.

I will of course keep you posted and I am like a little boy at Christmas waiting for these eggs to hatch.