Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi
I have hernandezi lizards that i got a month ago from wyoming.
Today, to my total suprize, it gave birth to 10 little lizards!! I thought it was a male!!!had no idea it was pregnant. I have no idea how to care about them. They are too small to eat crickets, and the sants that are for sale are too big for them.
Someone suggested wingless fruit flies...but i dont knwo where to buy them. Also people said pinhead crickets..i just ordered some on ebay - dont know if they'll eat them.
How should I care for them? I am a little overwelmed....
I have a 20 gallon tank with a combo light Uv Fluorescent.
what kind of soil shoul I use for them? I dont remember the name of the one i have but i dont think its the correct one.

Please help!!!
Thanks!

It is not good to be overwhelmed like this if you don't have much experience with horned lizards. Especially with hernadesi. Keeping horned lizards alive in captivity is hard enough, but hernandesi are even more difficult. Their environmental needs will vary a bit, as they are usually found in more humid and higher elevation areas. I would suggest that you get most or all of these babies into the hands of someone who has experience with them.

In the meantime, pinhead crickets will work. This species is not as dependent on harvester ants as most, but even a new born HL will eat them. Give the ants a try though. They may hesitate for a while, attempting to ascertain whether they can eat them or not, but eventually they will try. The size of a pinhead cricket is really no different than a harvester ant. Give them water from a dropper placed on the snout.

You also need a larger tank for the female. Then you need to seperate the babies into their own aquarium. For a hernandesi from Wyoming you may try either clean playbox grade sand with rocks, or a mixture of clean dirt and peat moss. Though it is likely this lizard came from an area much like the Badlands.

I don't recall exactly, but I believe the hernandesi may be protected or at least regulated to some degree in Wyoming. It is the state reptile. Do you know if the sale was legal and did the person who sold it to you give you any information whatsoever about where it came from?
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"A man that should call everything by it's right name, would hardly pass the streets without being knocked down as a common enemy." The Complete Works of George Savile, First Marquess of Halifax 1912,246

Hi
Thanks a lot for the reply and the info.
The lizards came from Medicine Bow, Wyoming. I don't think they are protected in Wyoming.
Why do i need to separate the female? Because it may eat its young?
Ive caught some small ants outside and they eat them. I also ordered pinhead crickets. I don't know if they eat bigger ants or not when they arrive.
They don't seem to be needing much water...Ive never seen them drink...but when i drop water on the nose of the mother, she starts drinking..I'll try the dropper...
Do I need to do anything to the tap water before i give it to them?

Thanks a lot!!!!!

No, she won't eat her young. You need to seperate them because the accomodations are of inadequate space and she may trample them. A single adult needs more than a 20 gallon.

Where are you? And what ants are you feeding them, if you know?

To be on the safe side, I always use bottled spring water instead of tap water( at room temp. ). One bottle last a long long time anyway.

Just to re-emphasize my point, I should tell you that to give them to a university herpetology or biology dept., or wildlife dept. official is a good idea. I would even suggest shipping them to someone if you have to. Even their chances in shipping are acceptable risk to get them in the right hands. All their lives may depend on it. No offense is meant here, but if you are asking how to take care of 10 baby hernandesi right now, you don't have the experience that this challenge may present. This is the wrong time to ask questions and play catch up trying to keep them alive.

Just think about the fact that for every gravid female HL taken from the wild by somebody, dozens an dozens of baby HLs will not be there to repopulate over her life span. It's even more sad to consider that a whole clutch of 10 that was born in captivity may die in inexperienced hands. Please do the right thing and don't try to take care of 10 baby hernadesi HLs yourself.
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"A man that should call everything by it's right name, would hardly pass the streets without being knocked down as a common enemy." The Complete Works of George Savile, First Marquess of Halifax 1912,246

Hi

I am in New York city
I am not sure what kind what kind of ants they are. I am finding them outside. The mother is not feeling well - she is not eating. She had been eating crickets before.
Do you know contact info of a particular place I could them to?
One of the babies already died today.
maybe I can just give them to the local petstore... what do you think?

Thanks

No, absolutely do not give them to any pet store. Pet store personnel would be even more inexperienced than what you have learned so far. Especially one in NYC. They wouldn't know what to do with them but sell them! No, these need to go to a herpetologist or zoo, at least if you are taking them to someone in your area.

I think that Mark B. has had some experience with hernandesi young, not sure. Maybe he's reading. The best bet is someone from this forum if you can't locate zoo or university herpetology staff who are knowledgeable of hernandesi horned lizards.

Make sure the young have each gotten some water. What are the conditions of the others? Have they all eaten, drank? What are your tank temps.? When did the mother last eat and drink?

I would advise against feeding them local ants. Some ants have been known to be fatally toxic to HLs, as well as fireflies. The mother may be sick from this, or dehydrated from the birthing. Stick with pinhead crickets if you don't have harvester ants. Make sure she drinks a couple of drops. If she has eaten but hasn't defecated in the last 3 days, give her a drop of milk of magnesia about 2-3 pinheads in size. Pinheads meaning an actual pin, not the cricket. I usually wouldn't tell someone new to HLs to try this but in my experience, by the time I figure out a condition on a forum and someone gets back to me, it's usually too late for the lizard. You will also have to make sure she is hydrated throughout the medicine taking effect.

Make the temps in the low 90s. This will be enough to encourage activity and help boost the immune system, but still keep a hernadesi comfortable.

AND CALL AROUND TO SEE IF ANY ZOOS OR UNIVERSITIES SPECIALIZING IN REPTILES HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE WITH HORNED LIZARDS.
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"A man that should call everything by it's right name, would hardly pass the streets without being knocked down as a common enemy." The Complete Works of George Savile, First Marquess of Halifax 1912,246

If you haven't already, go to phrynosoma.org for more info, and try to contact Mark. Also, I put up a caresheet draft on repticzone.com horned lizard forum. That may help you as well until you figure out what to do next. Be mindful though I specifically state in that caresheet that not all information is applicable to hernandesi.
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"A man that should call everything by it's right name, would hardly pass the streets without being knocked down as a common enemy." The Complete Works of George Savile, First Marquess of Halifax 1912,246

Hi Guys,
I've been following this thread and to be honest am at a loss to provide any help. My experience with hernandesi is not good. If there are some out there who have had good success it would be a great benefit to all here to hear about your experience.
I think by the time you were to get these shipped it would likely be too late.
It is a shame that hernandesi seem to be the most likely to be picked up in the wild. Their success rate in captivity seems to be pretty dismal.

Sorry I can't be of more help.
Good luck!
Mark
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Phrynosoma.Com

Cloudburst, if you haven't had any luck so far contacting someone of more experience to take them in, then I would strongly urge you here to offer them quickly to someone with either hernandesi or neonate experience; or at least 1 year experience with other horned lizards. They can be overnighted safely enough.

What is the condition of the mother and babies now?
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"A man that should call everything by it's right name, would hardly pass the streets without being knocked down as a common enemy." The Complete Works of George Savile, First Marquess of Halifax 1912,246

I would recommend that you consideringeither give these away to someone who is expirenced witht them, or consider if one of the Univeristy's may be studying these or maybe consider talking to Your local Fish & Game while some people are fearful of them, I have found a generally honest realizition is always handled with acceptance and overall have resources to help with the situation, you can also read infor at www.phrynosoma.com on HL care but this is not for a novice in my opinion and therefore considering the lizards and it future I suggest that the committment to these babies are going to be great including the ants and caging etc. for the future. Don't be fooled that these lizards don't need water, if the babies are not hydrated well then you can be sure they will not survive. These lizards generally are found at higher locations and live in a cooler and ususally more damp envirioment, and as the previous person said these are more difficult to keep than other species... By the way you don't say how long you've had your female? certianly your surprise was a surprise!!!
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Phrynosoma.org

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signature file edited. [phw 11/14/04]

I've had the female for a month and a half. It must have been a month and a half pregnant then.

Thanks!