Reptile & Amphibian Forums

How many alterna have you collected before 2:00 am, and how many after 2:00 am? It seems that Sanderson and east and Black Gap and West and of course Alpine and North are different. I don't think I see as many collected after 2:00 am in Brewster and Presidio Co. as I do in the eastern part of the range.
Any comments?
Later
Rick

most of mine were before midnight..............

Not that I have alot to compare.

277's- 9:17,10:50, 10:30
Sanderson- 10:00
Langtry-10:15

So all mine have been pretty early

Out of the 32 Alterna I have caught, 12 we're after 1:00am. The 2 I caught from the River Road we're between 9:40pm and midnight. I agree there are alot less late snakes caught out west. Four years ago on 277 Ben German caught 3 and I caught 2 in the same night. The first snake was 1:30am and the last was 5:00am. Talk about luck! Wayne had told me earlyer that night that nobody had caught anything in 10 nights. You just never know!!!

And I remember this time very well. You just never know is right. When that window opens up, it's all yours! I have hunted 277 only once this year, and overall the whole year has SUCKED from lack of rain. Whoever is catching alterna this year either lives out there ie. RAK, or is getting lucky (in my opinion). I think without a doubt 9:30-12:00 is the majic "hour" I think most alterna are avtive during this time slot, especially on 277/Juno.

Wayne

How are you Wayne? Long time no see. I agree with you on the hot time of the night to hunt. Most of mine have been during this time as well. But if a guy can stand it he should hunt as late as he can because there are alot snakes moving late into the morning at certin times. Especially Alterna and Bairds. Good luck on the rest of you'r year Wayne!!! Dont count out September. I have had great trips in September for Alterna on 277!

Hi Shawn,Whats been happening dude.Hope all is well.
Out of the handfull I have collected or been in on only one was very late and it was a adult female at 4:30 a.m on the new cuts just north of buffalo bridge.All the rest including a lajitas and a Davis were before midnight.
Aaron did collect one male two years ago on buffalo at about 2:00 a.m but most are collected in the early hours.

Shannon

Hey Shannon its good to here from you. Do you remember I was there when you caught that dark female she was on the east side of the road crawling away from the cut at a angle back toward the road. You field collected her right. That was the same trip when Arron caught one or two Buffalo Creek animals almost in the same spot I think. You also found a striped or zig zag Emory at Buffalo Creek. That was a great trip I caught the best light pin striped Alterna I have ever found at 3:00am. Wow memory lane!

The earliest for me was at about 8:50 and the sun wasn't down yet. I found a pair mating just north of the yellow light on 277 in the low cuts. The latest was about 4:15 am.
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Steve W.

Yeah,That was a great trip man.I walked that dark female (she's doing great and has laid two years in a row for me)Aaron walked a male and then we scored a killer light phase alterna morph just on the road right at the south end of the picnic cuts.
We ended up shining a killer male Davis on our last night when we were heading out also.
The next year Aaron scored another buffalo male walking and that was it for alternas for the trip.Then last year I walked a med-dark phase female (sub)right on the crumbly cutts at the radio tower.It was over 90 and very dry.I missed this year due to some schooling I couldn't miss during the same time.
I will be out there next year though.
L8r Shannon

I will say that in a measure of dusk to dawn we start with way more people at dusk. A lot of people roll in at midnight, and most of the rest are in by 3:00 or 4:00 AM. To me this says that any survey will have a bais that leans toward the time that most hunters are out, and when they are more alert in the earlier part of the night.

Just a thought... Unless we all hit it from dusk to dawn, and remain alert the whole night. It will be difficult to benchmark this at all.

Lance

I agree Lance!

Wayne

You are looking a lot deeper than I am. I am not looking for enough info to publish a paper, just enough to decide if I should hunt until 2:00 am or daylight. You guys that turn in at midnight, identify yourselves. The rest of you, thanks for the info.
Later
Rick

Yes a survey of a number of hunters with different times would be skewed but if you survey only those hunters who stay out from dusk to dawn you will get an accurate survey.
I stay out til dawn probably more than 95% of the time. Out of 12 alterna found by me or when I was present in the vehicle only 2 were found after 2am.

OK, I'm going to put all my alterna into a database - dates and times, not exact localities. I'll let you know when it is done.
J

It boils down to this: Most are caught before midnight. After 3AM it is nearly dead. However during very hot weather the movement will of necessity be much later. I rarely find an alterna when the air temp is 90 or above. Most are caught at 85 or less. On the River Road it is hotter so yes, later might be better.
"Think like the snake"

out of my 27 alternas, 2/3rds were collected after midnight with the majority being around 1 am to 2 am. But also being in west area. the ones more easterly of Lagntry and Juno was early on before midnight. over all species of areas of west that includes 118 north and south and River Road same. majority of observed snakes has always been after midnight. so what is the consensus here ? Heat in west taking longer to cool down ? If it is though and I would expect that it is, why the same happen on 118 north where it certainly stays cooler than RR. AND isn't there or has been that theory of window of movement at different hours throughout the night on snakes and particular of alterna ?
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I may be old , cantankerous, crabby, and cynical, but......

Given that it can still be 100F at midnight on the river road, yeah. The Davis Mts being higher you will find stuff earlier. Most nights in Val Verde cty. it is down below 90 by late dusk.

while most of my alterna have been found before 1am, here are a few later ones with a story on each.
on the first one the only other vehicle out that night was forks and tremper hunting together. i stopped to chat with them where they were working a rock cut s. of loma alta and neither of us had seen anything. it was a bit after 2am so i decided to head in. they said they were going to finish the cut they were on and would be right behind me. as i crossed the cheney creek bridge going about 50 mph i saw this in the road at 2:15. 30" male.
p>
on the next one i was the only car out there. i gave it up and was streaking home at around 65 mph when i saw this on the shoulder of the road between red bluff and carruthers at 2:03. i couldn't tell what it was but locked up the brakes, pulled over, got out of the car and strolled back. when i was about 40 ft. away i could see what it was and, since it hadn't moved i figured it was a dor that someone had put out so i wasn't in any hurry. when i got about 5' away i saw its tongue flick and then i moved!! it was a 36" male.

the last one was one of the latest ones i've found, 4:08 and it was also the largest, a 45" male. again, it was the only snake i'd seen that night.

I'd say that these three snakes are sufficient reason to keep on plugging.

np

Wow John-awesome animals. So far 100% of my greybands have been collected after midnight......My own one and only alterna was on a cut near elephant (about halfway between Alpine and the Christmas) at 2:30 AM 28 May, '06.

Brad Chambers

Nice find Brad! Any chance we could see a photo of that snake? Not many been found there before. Is that between the rest areas or further south? I never find snakes down there but did see my first mountain lion in the wild there.
BA

Thanks, Brad. She is a nice alterna phase with an almost blue ground color-a really nice animal. I'll post a pic of her when I have time to figure out this pic posting thing-I'll try on my day off (Tues.) She was found about 12 ft up on the last major cut before hitting Elephant mntn (heading South, that is), on the west side of 118. We were heading back to Alpine after a fruitless evening on RR (too hot), and felt we had enough energy to walk a couple of cuts. She is about 26 inches, and had just swallowed an adult crevice spiny when I found her.

Brad Chambers

How long ago was that picture taken John???

Wayne

They were all 1992 catches, Wayne. and I know what you are getting at: why have I aged so gracefully while all around me are people turning to mud.

Hey John I noticed that the Desert Hills was not painted pink yet in that picture! That tells you how long ago it was. Don't feel bad i'm not aging so well eather and I've also lost my boyish figure too!! LOL

.......You're a mind reader John!!!

Wayne

about running over the tail on that alterna phase!

Yes.
It took me a while to find the first snake as it had scooted over to the other side of the road. As I got back to my car I saw Forky's headlights coming so I blithely stood by the door of my car, slowly swinging the alterna back and forth. I handed it to Joe to take a look at and he pointed out the tire marks on the last inch or so of its tail.

The majority of my animals have been before midnight. The earliest has been 9:17 PM....the latest in the east has been 3:20 AM; the west 3:30 AM. I have spent many a night up until dawn; but, checking my notes, approximately 75% of my sightings are before 12:30 AM. Like Joe, I have caught enough to know to stay out late.

I never quit before 2:00 am unless temperatures/conditions really suck. I usually stay out until about 3 or 4 unless conditions seem really good.

I've caught half of my 44 alterna in the a.m. hours.

AFter 2 a.m. = off the top my head

3 of 6 rivers
2 of 5 gaps
0 of 5 alpines
0 of 4 davis
1 of 1 Xmas
1 of 7 Sandersons (2 were close)
0 of 6 Lomas (1 was close)
0 of 2 Langtrys (1 was close)
1 of 3 Junos (at 8:05 am)
2 of 4 Sheffields (and a 3rd was close)
0 of 1 Dollen Rd

Latest were a Sanderson at 4:20, a sheffield at 4:05, a river at 3:40, the Xmas at 3:21, and a Gap at 3:15 (not counting the 8:05 a.m. Juno found after I woke up in the morning).

Troy