Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Is anyone here going to the Tucson Expo in September going to have any solid black nigritus for sale? Thanks in advance.

Under AZ law its illegal to sell snakes that are native to the state - not jsut native w/c. It doesn't make a distinction for animals that are CB out of state. If the snake was something like a Cal King morph, they tend to let that go but a Ngrita is hard to distinguish and w/c from one that is 8 generations removed from the wild.

Thanks for the info. I didn't know that.

California has similar law, though it makes exception for a few species, namely California Kingsnake, the Gopher Snake subspecies we have (Pacific, San Diego, and I think Sonoran), Rosy Boas, and I believe legally captive bred albinos of any species.

To intentionally breed any native california species, you need to get a native species permit - I think for hobbyist it is something like $40.00 but I haven't bought one.

The laws are IMHO good laws, as they prevent over collection - but I wish they were a little more lenient for documented captive breeding programs.
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3.0 WC; 0.1 CB L. getula californiae
0.1 CB L. pyromelana pyromelana
0.1 WC; 10 eggs (7/11) Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata

You will probably find Mexican Blacks at the Tucson Show, as they were sold there the past few years. You can sell ANY snake in Arizona that didn't originate from Arizona. You can sell: California Kingsnakes, Garter Snakes, Glossy Snakes, Sonoran Gopher Snakes, Western Hognose Snakes, Desert Kingsnakes, Mexican Black Kingsnakes, Sonoran Mountain Kingsnakes, New Mexico Milksnakes, and Rosy Boas (both triv gracia and triv triv). These are the common species found in Arizona as well as outside of Arizona that are popular with the herp trade. The exception is venomous-can't.

All of this has come from the AZ G&F who have come to the Arizona Herpetological Assoc. meetings and have told us. They said it is THEIR responsibility to produce "burden of proof" that the animals you are selling CAME FROM ARIZONA. You also cannot sell CB babies from Arizona stock. Just keep your reciepts when purchasing stock that comes from outside of Arizona (and originated from outside of Arizona).

There is no confusion here. AZ G&F will have a booth at the Tucson Reptile & Amphibian Show, right along side of the breeders selling Mexican Blacks.

Kerby...

LOL, you are definitely more in tune with this subject than I am. I defer to you.

You want the truth?

I demand the truth!

You can't handle the truth!

You NEED me on that wall, you WANT me on that wall!

Sorry, I couldn't help myself....

Kerby...

With the way things are going, you're darn right!!!!!! I WANT somebody on that wall!!!! Thank God for the men and women ready and able!!!!!

Pat

...so is it legal for pet shops to sell Sonoran Gophers here in Phoenix? I saw some for sale a couple weeks ago and I always thought it was a no-no.

I've seen Cal and Black Kings for sale around town, but never Splendida or other natives, so I thought they were the exception.
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Diego

Diego & Tiffany's Zoo:
SNAKES
3.4 Corn Snakes (Different morphs)
1.0.0 Boa Constrictor
0.1.0 Dumeril's Boa
1.1.0 Rosy Boas (Mexican & Mid Baja)
1.1.0 Kenyan Sand Boas
0.1.0 Indonesian Dwarf Pacific Boa
0.1.0 Tangerine Honduran Milksnake
1.0.0 Honduran Milksnake
0.1.0 Pueblan Milksnake
1.2.0 Ball Pythons
1.0.0 Woma Python
0.0.1 Ribbon Snake
1.0.0 Western Hognose
1.0.0 Albino San Diego Gopher Snake
0.0.1 Sonoran Gopher Snake
0.1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake
1.1.0 Gray Banded Kingsnakes (River Road)
0.1.0 Desert Kingsnake
0.1.1 California Kingsnakes
1.0.0 Yellowtail Cribo
0.1.0 Blacktail Cribo

LIZARDS
1.0.0 Frilled Dragon
3.1.0 Bearded Dragons (2 Normal, 1 RedXGold, 1 Citrus)
0.1.0 Eastern Collared Lizard
0.1.0 Merauke Blue Tongue Skink
1.0.0 Turquoise Sunburst Veiled Chameleon
2.3.0 Leopard Geckos
1.1.0 Yellow Niger Uromastyx
1.1.0 Green Anoles
1.0.0 Bahama Anoles
FROGS
2.2.0 Southern Bell Frogs
1.0.1 Green Tree Frogs
0.0.2 Striped Walking Frogs
1.1.1 White's Tree Frogs

If the Sonoran Gophers originated outside of Arizona, then it is legal. If they are from stock that originated here in Arizona, then they are illegal. I hope the pet store has a receipt on who they bought them from and where they came from.

Kerby...

I am going, but no black kings. About the law, its illegal to sell reptiles native to arizona, period. But, the fish and game has the right to interpid this law as they see fit.

So they do allow captive borned snakes of species that come from arizona to be sold at shows and at petshops.

If it appears they are wildcaught, you could be in for some trouble. If they were purchased from out of state, then its best to provide proof of that. Remember, you lost if your cited. It will cost you even if your innocent. Its their choice to cite you or not.

In recent years, they have been very loose and nice. hahahahahahaha. Normally if the F&G have some doubt, they will tell you to remove that snake from the table(not to sell it) If you refuse, you could be in for a fun ride. Again, its their choice and it could change, day to day, or individual officer to individual officer.

If it were me and its all about individual choice, I would not try to sell adults, specially if they have ticks and appear wild caught. If I were from out of state, I may try to sell truely captivebred and hatched snakes. But I would ask before I did so. They, F&G will be at the show. Cheers

Thanks to all who replied.