Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was just wanting to take a quick poll because I was curious about something. Of those that have bred pure amels, how often do you see orange babies pop up? I have always wondered if all orange corns were creams or if it is common for orange amels to pop up.
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
0.0.1 MO Locale Black Ratsnake "Molly" (Flogging Molly)

As we say in Missouri, "I ain't goin back to Missouri!"

What is a pure amel? What are the chances that they have only been bred with the amel gene only?
Most of my orange amels have caramel in them!

>>What is a pure amel? What are the chances that they have only been bred with the amel gene only?
>>Most of my orange amels have caramel in them!
>>
>>
>>

What do you mean by that strange question?
"What is a pure amel? What are the chances that they have only been bred with the amel gene only?"

Do you mean pure corn snake as opposed to intergrade or hybrid?

A caramel is a pure corn...an amelanistic caramel is a butter.
Guess what. That obviously makes a butter a pure amel.
You need to explain what in the world you are trying to say here.

If I breed a normal corn het amel to an anery het amel there is about a 25% chance I will get some amels.
If I do get any amels, are you insinuating that these will not be "pure" amels because they were not bred from amel to amel?
Or because they will be het anery this would somehow mean they are not pure amel?
If so.....man you are way off

Now, to go back and answer the original question..
In a clutch of 20 amels you can have twenty different levels of reds and oranges but there are definitely amels (pure corns carrying the amel gene) that are orange.
Look at the orange candy canes for instance. Candy canes are selective bred for the orange and the obvious candy cane "look"
Just think of all the amels from these pairings that carry the desired candy cane "look" but do carry the orange coloration.

Just because it has orange do not automatically assume creamsicle. Amelanistic corn snakes can and do express orange.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

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Just think of all the amels from these pairings that carry the desired candy cane "look" but do carry the orange coloration.

this should actually read

Just think of all the amels from these pairings that DO NOT carry the desired candy cane "look" but do carry the orange coloration.
These are simply sold as amels. Now you have amels with orange.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

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The key word here is cream. Does this mean hybrid? I was thinking of a pure amel as never having any added morphs.

Amel x Amel. But once you have an amel het for another morph
you lose the pure amel. Which is almost impossible (I think).
That is what I meant by "What is a pure amel."

>>The key word here is cream. Does this mean hybrid? I was thinking of a pure amel as never having any added morphs.
>>
>>Amel x Amel. But once you have an amel het for another morph
>>you lose the pure amel. Which is almost impossible (I think).
>>That is what I meant by "What is a pure amel."

You seem to be confusing morphs with species.
an Emroryi (Great Plains) rat is a separate species.
an amelanistic version of an emoryi rat snake X corn snake mix is a creamsicle ( we won't go into the displeasure of that name at this time)
corn snakes expressing anery, amel or hypo (for example) are expressing different morphs.
They are still pure corns and are genetically just what they are, anerys, amels or hypos.

His question was simple, are there orange amels or are orange amles creams.
Not not all orange amels are creamsicles.
Pure amel corn snakes can have orange.
creamsicles are amelanistic emoryi/guttatus mixes and do tend more towards oranges.

How is an amel het anery not a pure amel?
A normal het amel is still genetically a normal.
An anery het amel is still genetically an anery.
An amel het anery is still genetically an amel.

your analysis that an amel het anery is not a pure amel and it is almost impossible to have a pure amel is confusing to say the least.

Amelanism is a lack of melanine (black) resulting in brighter remaining colors and red/pink eyes.

If a snake is amelanistic it is amelanistic.

going back to your amels with caramel in them.
I would assume you mean amel het caramel?
That is at least what it appears to be. With Caramel it seems to add more yellow even in het animals.
But an amel het caramel is still exactly that an AMEL het caramel.
If it is pure corn and amel that makes it pure amel.
If it is pure corn and amel and het caramel it is simply that a pure amel het caramel.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

_____

Thanks for clearing that up for me Jimmy.
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
0.0.1 MO Locale Black Ratsnake "Molly" (Flogging Molly)

As we say in Missouri, "I ain't goin back to Missouri!"

A creamsicle corn is an amel corn snake crossed with a Great Plains ratsnake. You cannot have a creamsicle "pop up" when breeding two pure corns.

Tim

Third Eye

That was not my question. My question was more or less "If an amel expresses unusual amounts of orange is it safe to say it has emoryi in it?" But thank you for your reply.
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
0.0.1 MO Locale Black Ratsnake "Molly" (Flogging Molly)

As we say in Missouri, "I ain't goin back to Missouri!"

No, it wouldn't be safe to assume that a light orange corn has emory in it. A clutch of corns typically displays a certain amount of variability. The only foolproof way to label something as a "creamsicle" is to know as a fact that it has Great Plains ratsnake in it's genetic makeup.

There are a lot of different looks to "pure" amels - reverse Okeetee, sunglow, candycane, etc. There are also many "looks" to creamsicles - yellow, red, the traditional pale orange, etc.

Don't let looks fool you - know the genetics of what you're working with.

Tim

This one seems to be settled. But I liked part of the topic so here goes.

I think what some people keyed in on in your post was:

"I have always wondered if all orange corns were creams or if it is common for orange amels to pop up."

Now by mentioning "cream" 99.99% of people would think of the genotype. Amel x Emory = rootbeer -- rootbeer x rootbeer = some creamcicles. I think that part is right, main concept thought is creamcicles has an emory bloodline.

NOW, the reason I posted. Amels seem to vary like creams. I would think it POSSIBLE to selectively breed "pure amels" and get a snake to LOOK very similar to a variant of the creamcicle.

With that in mind, I would also say it is possible for a "pure amel" to throw out cream LOOKING amels.

I forget the term for variations, so natural selection can occur.

But I've said before, some day soon, we will have several different ways to get to a certain LOOK of corn. And genetically they all will be different to some degree.

For me, I'm looking for a blue or green corn, just to complete the color spectrum! lol

Take care.

Tom