Reptile & Amphibian Forums

We got a python from some friends of ours back at the end of May. They were sad to give it up, but they wanted to make room for more lizards. The python had come from the wife's cousin, whom I do not know. The people said that it was a ball python, so I am assuming that is what their cousin thought it was, too. His name is "Monty," by the way.

Suspicion #1

A few weeks after I had the snake I weighed and measured it. Then he/she was 1227 grams and about 4.5 feet long. That was around the middle of June. I weighed it today and the scale tipped out at 1710 grams. I am feeding "Monty" large rats once a week, so I do not know if this is normal growth or if the snake was underfed previously? Any thoughts? Even though the weight is in the ball range, the body shape doesn't seem like a ball to me (from the pictures I've seen). I have not remeasured the length, but he/she seems longer (went through one shed so far).

Suspicion #2

I bought a ball python manual and have been perusing websites. I have yet to find a ball python with the same body pattern. With so many morphs I guess I could be wrong, but Monty just doesn't look like a ball to me...at least not a normal ball. Normal balls have more curved patterns, whereas this snake seems to have rectangular blocks.

Suspicion #3

While Monty will coil up like any other snake, I've yet to see him/her do the "defensive coil into a ball thing"...though he/she is quite tame and I suppose that tame balls don't do that unless they feel threatened.

What Is It?

I have my thoughts as to what Monty might be, but I thought I'd get some expert advice here before jumping to any conclusions...well, okay, to be honest with you I think it looks just like the pictures I have seen of Burmese Pythons. So, do you think this is a ball python or some other (perhaps larger) type of python?

Below are several pictures I took this afternoon. That's my 4 year old son in the background of the last couple shots. He weighs around 35 lbs.

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0.2.0 Emory's Rat Snake (het for amel)
0.0.1 Ball Python (normal)

Looks like a very nice burmese to me. Although it could be one of the other sub-species in that complex. I've never been very good at telling them apart.
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1.1 Red Bloods (Cartman and Bebe)
0.1 Boa Constrictor (Victoria)
0.1 Albino Burm (Butters)
0.0.1 Desert King (Miles)

You've got yourself a beautiful Burmese Python, my friend. Looks like a juvie, so be ready for a heck of a lot more growth!!
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Diego

Diego & Tiffany's Zoo:
SNAKES
3.4 Corn Snakes (Different morphs)
1.0.0 Boa Constrictor
0.1.0 Dumeril's Boa
1.1.0 Rosy Boas (Mexican & Mid Baja)
1.1.0 Kenyan Sand Boas
0.1.0 Indonesian Dwarf Pacific Boa
0.1.0 Tangerine Honduran Milksnake
1.0.0 Honduran Milksnake
0.1.0 Pueblan Milksnake
1.2.0 Ball Pythons
1.0.0 Woma Python
0.0.1 Ribbon Snake
1.0.0 Western Hognose
1.0.0 Albino San Diego Gopher Snake
0.0.1 Sonoran Gopher Snake
0.1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake
1.1.0 Gray Banded Kingsnakes (River Road)
0.1.0 Desert Kingsnake
0.1.1 California Kingsnakes
1.0.0 Yellowtail Cribo
0.1.0 Blacktail Cribo

LIZARDS
1.0.0 Frilled Dragon
3.1.0 Bearded Dragons (2 Normal, 1 RedXGold, 1 Citrus)
0.1.0 Eastern Collared Lizard
0.1.0 Merauke Blue Tongue Skink
1.0.0 Turquoise Sunburst Veiled Chameleon
2.3.0 Leopard Geckos
1.1.0 Yellow Niger Uromastyx
1.1.0 Green Anoles
1.0.0 Bahama Anoles
FROGS
2.2.0 Southern Bell Frogs
1.0.1 Green Tree Frogs
0.0.2 Striped Walking Frogs
1.1.1 White's Tree Frogs

So you're sure it's a Burmese Python and not some sub-species? If so, I may have gotten more than I bargained for...as the first question my wife asked when I brought it home was, "Will it get any bigger?" No matter how much they've been villanized by the media, large pythons are a lot of responsibility and not to be taken lightly. Recommend any good resource pages for the care of Burms?

What I'm not understanding about all of this is that the family said that the snake's been around for at least four or five years. It ought to be over 10' long and 40+ lbs by now. Then again, I also read somewhere that "pythons sometimes suddenly start growing quickly after a long period of slow growth." The family also said that it shed four times between December '05 (the time they got it from their relative) and May '06.

Could feeding (i.e., frequency) or housing have slowed growth? For example, the snake did not have a hide box when I got it, but took to one right away as soon as I offered it.
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0.2.0 Emory's Rat Snake (het for amel)
0.0.1 Ball Python (normal)

It is definitely a Burm.

I don't keep Burms, specifically because of their size and their space requirements. I really can't tell you much about them.

I gotta tell you, I'm no expert, but that snake doesn't look like it's much more than two years old, if that. I've heard of Dwarf Burm strains, but it is rare, and I've also heard of a study conducted on Australian Water Pythons that you can stunt their growth by feeding them less in the first two years of their lives. Maybe that applies to Burms?

Sorry I can't really be of more help. Maybe someone with Burm experience can take over...
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Diego

Diego & Tiffany's Zoo:
SNAKES
3.4 Corn Snakes (Different morphs)
1.0.0 Boa Constrictor
0.1.0 Dumeril's Boa
1.1.0 Rosy Boas (Mexican & Mid Baja)
1.1.0 Kenyan Sand Boas
0.1.0 Indonesian Dwarf Pacific Boa
0.1.0 Tangerine Honduran Milksnake
1.0.0 Honduran Milksnake
0.1.0 Pueblan Milksnake
1.2.0 Ball Pythons
1.0.0 Woma Python
0.0.1 Ribbon Snake
1.0.0 Western Hognose
1.0.0 Albino San Diego Gopher Snake
0.0.1 Sonoran Gopher Snake
0.1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake
1.1.0 Gray Banded Kingsnakes (River Road)
0.1.0 Desert Kingsnake
0.1.1 California Kingsnakes
1.0.0 Yellowtail Cribo
0.1.0 Blacktail Cribo

LIZARDS
1.0.0 Frilled Dragon
3.1.0 Bearded Dragons (2 Normal, 1 RedXGold, 1 Citrus)
0.1.0 Eastern Collared Lizard
0.1.0 Merauke Blue Tongue Skink
1.0.0 Turquoise Sunburst Veiled Chameleon
2.3.0 Leopard Geckos
1.1.0 Yellow Niger Uromastyx
1.1.0 Green Anoles
1.0.0 Bahama Anoles
FROGS
2.2.0 Southern Bell Frogs
1.0.1 Green Tree Frogs
0.0.2 Striped Walking Frogs
1.1.1 White's Tree Frogs

there is no such thing as a "subspecies." a species is defined as a diagnosable monphiletic lineage. "subspecies" are not diagnosable. the term geographic variant better describes the phenomenon on coloration differences through different regions affecting members of the same species. the subspecies concept is not accurate.

Not quite right either!

Although the validity and acceptance of subspecies is discussed controversy for over 20 years, they are meant to be more than just geographically isolated populations or such. An interesting paper can be found here: http://www.goodrumj.com/Smith.html

In the end it depends on the species concept one prefers. Some do accept the subspecific rank, others don't. But it would be wrong to say that the "subspecies concept" is not accuate!

Check the kingsnake.com taxonomy forum to learn more about subspecies and their acceptance and validity.
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http://www.leiopython.de - the white-lipped python site -
http://www.herpers-digest.com - herp related eBooks search -

Just found some more info on growth rates...sounds like what may have happened to mine. I know that the previous owners were feeding a large rat at least 2x's a month, but that was only for five months.

The below is from the following link: www.bobclark.com/aAN_98.asp

"The growth rate of Burmese pythons can be influenced by several factors, with the snakes being capable of an almost unbelievable rate of growth under ideal conditions. Burmese pythons that are kept at temperatures in the mid- to high-80s, and that are fed all they will eat twice a week (on average), can reach a length of nearly 10 feet in one years' time. In contrast, I know of a Burmese that was fed only one mouse every 10 days, and in seven years it reached a length of only slightly more than 4'/, feet. I obtained this snake, and after a year of heavy feeding it reached a length of 11 feet."
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0.2.0 Emory's Rat Snake (het for amel)
0.0.1 Burmese Python?

Hello--
Wow, you have a lot to take into consideration. With regular feedings, this snake will grow quickly. Large constrictors are a lot of responsibility, cost, and husbandry. Depending upon where you live, there may be laws against keeping a snake over a certain length. Do the research on the species before making any decisions. Burms are beautiful animals, but they aren't for everyone. Even if puppy-dog tame, this species grows into a powerful, potentially dangerous constrictor. If you decide not to keep the animal, please make sure that it goes to an informed person or to a reptile rescue.
rgds,
althea

Thats one very nice looking burm youve got there.. Its definalty going to be a handfull when it gets bigger. I would start thinking about prepairing for such a large animal. Theres no way that thing is 4 years old its still just a baby.

Brandon

I am still not sure about the age--the information available about the origins of the snake is secondhand and unclear--but the previous owner indicated that she was definitely underfeeding the Burm...going on the assumption that it was a Ball. It was only getting a medium rat every two weeks from Dec. '05 through May '06. Not sure at all what the owner before was feeding it in terms of size and frequency. But it's clear that it's been growing faster. I measured it last night and it was right at 5', so about six inches growth in less than a month and 25% body weight in a month and a half.

I've grown fond of the snake, but knowing what it'll become I think we're going to be finding him a new home. My friend is asking her cousin if he wants it back, but I'm not sure if it wouldn't be better off somewhere else.
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0.2.0 Emory's Rat Snake (het for amel)
0.0.1 Burmese Python?

Try your local Herp Society. There are also numerous Herp Rescues throughout the country.

Good luck!
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Diego

Diego & Tiffany's Zoo:
SNAKES
3.4 Corn Snakes (Different morphs)
1.0.0 Boa Constrictor
0.1.0 Dumeril's Boa
1.1.0 Rosy Boas (Mexican & Mid Baja)
1.1.0 Kenyan Sand Boas
0.1.0 Indonesian Dwarf Pacific Boa
0.1.0 Tangerine Honduran Milksnake
1.0.0 Honduran Milksnake
0.1.0 Pueblan Milksnake
1.2.0 Ball Pythons
1.0.0 Woma Python
0.0.1 Ribbon Snake
1.0.0 Western Hognose
1.0.0 Albino San Diego Gopher Snake
0.0.1 Sonoran Gopher Snake
0.1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake
1.1.0 Gray Banded Kingsnakes (River Road)
0.1.0 Desert Kingsnake
0.1.1 California Kingsnakes
1.0.0 Yellowtail Cribo
0.1.0 Blacktail Cribo

LIZARDS
1.0.0 Frilled Dragon
3.1.0 Bearded Dragons (2 Normal, 1 RedXGold, 1 Citrus)
0.1.0 Eastern Collared Lizard
0.1.0 Merauke Blue Tongue Skink
1.0.0 Turquoise Sunburst Veiled Chameleon
2.3.0 Leopard Geckos
1.1.0 Yellow Niger Uromastyx
1.1.0 Green Anoles
1.0.0 Bahama Anoles
FROGS
2.2.0 Southern Bell Frogs
1.0.1 Green Tree Frogs
0.0.2 Striped Walking Frogs
1.1.1 White's Tree Frogs