Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi all,

This morning my mother called me for help. She had a snake in her shed and wanted it removed (at least I've suceeded in convincing her not to kill things on sight). I got there and it was a juvenile black rat snake. My mother lives in the center of town, and I'm not sure how this baby got there, but chasing it out was just not an option. So I caught it and brought it home, but now I'm not sure how to proceed.

I live on a few acres surrounded by state gamelands. We have large numbers of black rats around here, so I know our area is ideal habitat. This little guy is really small, though, and I am hesitant to just thow him out into the woods. He's about a foot long (I haven't actually measured him, but it's a close approximation). Best I can tell, that makes him nearly a hatchling.

I have a bit of experience with herps. I have Bahama anoles, Carolina anoles, a Bearded Dragon and a Ball Python. I've kept snakes and lizards since I was young (more than twenty years), and I would be willing to raise this little guy. I would rather see him back in the wild, but I do not want to release him to a certain death, either.

Opinions, anyone? What are the chances this guy will successfully establish himself in a new (outdoor) environment? Is there any way to increase his odds of survival before releasing him?

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

-Kays

>>What are the chances this guy will successfully establish himself in a new (outdoor) environment?>Is there any way to increase his odds of survival before releasing him?
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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"

Dang - posted your question but not my answer!

>>What are the chances this guy will successfully establish himself in a new (outdoor) environment?>Is there any way to increase his odds of survival before releasing him?
-----
I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"

>>What are the chances this guy will successfully establish himself in a new (outdoor) environment?

Poor at best - most hatchlings don't make it. hatchling mortality is very high, with perhaps one out of 50 to 100 making it to breeding age. There are a lot of hazards for babies - predators, roads, ignorant humans, etc., and many hatchlings die during the first winter by being caught out in the first hard freeze. This problem is exacerbated for a hatchlings in unknown territory.

>>Is there any way to increase his odds of survival before releasing him?

Hard to say, but you could try feeding him up to yearling size. By then he will be a little less likely to be predated - but he will be habituated to human contact.

Note that hatchlings are the best choice for WC captives - compared to adults, they adjust to captivity better, feed better, are calmer, and less likely to rub their noses raw constantly trying to escape. Also, hatchlings are much less likely to be successful breeders then established adults.

I admire your goal to return the little guy to the wild, but I don't believe would be hurting the wild population (which you say is already thriving) by keeping him.

Good Luck with whatever you decide to do,

John D
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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"

Hello, I would choose to raise him/her in captivity, watch it grow, learn somemore,how will it look as an adult, ect. You have experience with captives, just keep up the good work, care, and love for our creatures, blessings!

Anthony C. Sr.

Thanks for the information. While I haven't yet decided to keep the little guy, I do have him settled in for the night in a spare ten gallon tank. I have to look into the legalities of keeping him before I make any final decisions. I seem to recall that Pennsylvania is pretty restrictive when it comes to wild-caught animals.

Best to all,

-Kays

Should you decided not to keep him, and given the wise counsel above about the risks to the snake of releasing him in a new area, you might consider looking for a science teacher who would house him as a classroom pet/exhibit. A black rat would make a nice teaching tool and help indoctrinate whole classes full of kids into a sensible attitude toward snakes.

Thanks for the suggestion. It's a good one. When the school year starts again, I might ask at the high school. In the meantime, I've decided to hold onto him.

Overnight, he regurgitated a small chick. So now I have the added concern of seeing that he eats something fairly soon. The only thing I have in the house is a nest of rat fuzzies and some frozen rat pinkies, both of which are too large. I can't get to the pet store until tomorrow, which I suppose will be O.K.

Do rat snakes feed strictly on live prey in captivity? How well do they take F/T? I know the wild ones eat eggs- we have a bit of a house sparrow "issue" in our area, and now that the bluebirds are done for the year, I suppose I could let the sparrows nest in the boxes to produce a supply of eggs for this little guy.

Well, I suppose I'll pick up a mouse pink tomorrow and see how it goes.

Thanks again,

-Kays

If he regurged, you need to wait at least a week to let his digestive system get back on track. I assume he regurged a sm chick that he ate in the wild...not one that you fed him. You may very well get him to eat f/t without much trouble. At least offer it. Since he just regurged, make his next meal a small one...And resist the temptation to feed him before August. Try to get a few good meals in him with no regurge before you handle him too much. Good luck. Duffy

What Duffy said . . . at least a week, preferably two. My WC took F/T mice with no problem. Put one in, cover the tank for a while to let him feel secure and leave it for a while. Soon he may be taking F/T from tongs eagerly.

Thank you both for that information. It makes things somewhat easier for me- I have time to research before worrying about his first meal.

Yes, the chick he regurgitated was a wild meal. It was really small, like a wren or chickadee hatchling. No feathers. I handled him a bit this morning to clean out his little "gift", and he was quite obliging. Initially he assumed a strike pose, but once I picked him up he calmed. He's very quick (much like a ribbon snake I once cared for) but he actually settled down and just hung on my left hand while I cleaned with my right. Once back in the tank, he disappeared into the hide and he's been in there all day.

I won't handle him again until he's thoroghly settled in & eating well. Thanks for that bit of advice. I remember back when I bought my Ball (a few years ago) that I was given the same advice.... she never refused a meal, though, and has never regurgitated, so this is a new experience for me.

BTW, my boys have named him Lewis

Thanks again for all the help. I really appreciate you guys, your experience, and this forum as a resource.

-Kays

"...she never refused a meal, though, and has never regurgitated, so this is a new experience for me."

I should probably clarify this statement a bit. My Ball *has* refused meals, but only pre-shed, not when she was young, and she has never regurgitated.

Sorry for the miscommunication.

-Kays

I forgot to add that he did take a nice long drink this morning before dropping into his hide. I take that as a good sign, and I doubt I'll be "tempted" to feed him before he's ready. I can be pretty hard when it's a "for your own good" situation. Grew up on a farm, and all that....

....just ask my kids how hard-hearted I can be LOL....

-Kays

Should you not be able to keep him/her due to legality of keeping indigenous species, another option could be to contact nature centers/wildlife rescues in your area. These organizations usually have or know of someone with the proper credentials to help this little one out. Best of luck!
rgds,
althea

Pa. currently allows two of each species (not endangered) with a possesion limit of two.Legally obtained with a Pa. fishing liscence.This is likely to change from what I've been reading.Thay want to cut the number down to one of each specie.In proposal now.They also want to add a "color morph" clause.This may be helpfull to those of us who keep albinos,leusistics,ect..of species native to Pa.

Thank you for that. Do you know where I could find the relevant info? I think I'll go look on the game commission website now.

Thanks again. That's one beautiful snake you have there

-Kays

Hi again. I found the following statement:

"A fishing license is required to catch or take reptiles and amphibians from the waters of the Commonwealth. A fishing license is not required to take snakes or other reptiles and amphibians. A special permit is required to take timber rattlesnakes."

On this page:

http://sites.state.pa.us/PA_Exec/Fish_Boat/fishpub/summary/repamp.html

It's not very clear information. I interpret it to mean that a fishing license is not required in my situation, but I certainly could be misinterpreting it.

Any thoughts?

-Kays

Hard to say how they would view it.Personally,I would not worry about it.I just always have a fishing liscence since I like to fish anyway.Your blackrat will make a wonderfull pet snake.
Mike

You didn't "take" this snake at all, especially from the wild. An exterminator wouldn't need a license to kill it in your mom's shed, so you shouldn't worry about rescuing the little guy.

These laws are meant to keep folks from going into the woods and stripping the wildlife from it.

I live on .5 acres with half of it being woods (in MO). Here's a couple of pics of a full grown black rat on my property. I released him. However, if I was cutting the grass and ran across a hatchling or if it slithered across my patio or deck, chances are I wouldn't think twice about keeping it (if I wanted another snake). However, I wouldn't go raiding a snake den in the woods.

One year we found a dead hatchling in the street in front of my house. It had been run over by a car. A year or two earlier, I had hit a snake with the mower and cut it in half. That was before I had a pet snake. If it would happen now, I'd be demi-traumatized. Back then it was no big deal. Funny how opinions change!

Walt