Reptile & Amphibian Forums

OK,
say you go to a breeders house to look at some animals you might be interested in. When you get their you see two supposed females you want. You set a price give a deposit to hold the animals and make the deal. At this point the deal is set in stone and you have it in writing. Now, a few weeks later the breeder calls and says he has a little issue. One of the females is a male and now if I want the two animals i'm going to have to put in more money. The animals in question were the same price for the most part last year but he's saying males are worth 500$ more now.

At first I asked which one turned out to be a male and he say's he can't remember off hand cause he's at work. My issue is, the animals in question are very nice but one is better then the other and i'm worried the nicer of the 2 might be the male which I wouldn't mind cause it's that nice but I feel I shouldn't have to pay more after the deal was made and it was his mistake. If it's the other one I wouldn't mind as much taking a different female eventhough the other and last female isn't as nice.

My main question to you guys out their is, if the nicest one is the male do you think he should honor the original deal we had before he realized he made a mistake? Or,do you think he has grounds to change the deal now and charge me 500$ bucks more after the fact eventhough it's his error?

I know what i'd do if I was the breeder and I made the mistake but what would you guys do if you were the breeder? Or if,you were the buyer like me, what would you expect the breeder to do in a situation such as this?

Any opinions would be a great help and thanks in advance for your time.

Thanks, Ruben Michel

IMO, the deal was struck. Only out would be yours since the individual animal was not the sex you were told you were buying. Maybe if the breeder is adamant, you could split the difference? $250 more If the male really is more valuable,

That said, was it a case of mistaken identity? Did he accidentally show you the male as a female? Or did he re-sex and discover it was really a male?
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
10.22 BRB
10.15 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

He mis-sexed. Well,actually he had someone else sex them and then another that realized the female was a male.

>>He mis-sexed. Well,actually he had someone else sex them and then another that realized the female was a male.

Then it is definately his loss, he sold you what he thought were two females. You bought (left deposit) on two females. He then later discovered it was a male and now worth more. Too bad, like I said earlier, you would/should have the right to back out of the deal (at least on the one) since it was not what you were purchasing.

IMO no different than selling an animal and getting a bigger offer later. Since the deal was already made, and you left a deposit, they are "sold" waiting on final payment per whatever terms you two agreed upon.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
10.22 BRB
10.15 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

personally if I were the breeder, I would honor the original set price. Let's say the deal was for $1000.00 for the pair. The breeder was already happy enough to accept that price in the beginning, I don't think he should charge you for a sexing mistake.

Thats what i'm thinking! I'd never make someone pay any extra for my mistake.

just by posing your question, it has been answered.

Anyone who is going to change the price on you after a verbal agreement, falls under the "shady" category for me.

Don't bother!
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Chris & Alliey
www.bloodyleopard.com
E-mail Us

My thoughts are that "A deal is a deal...period"

If the breeder made the mistake of incorrectly sexing his animals then I believe that he should own his mistake and accept the consequence for it. What if you were looking for a pair of females for a long term project and the breeders mistake was not discovered until you had possession of the animals for several years causing you difficulties in accomplishing your breeding goals. What then?

I would encourage this breeder to do the right thing and accept resopnsibility for HIS mistake and not make you pay for HIS mistake!

Denny Rimes

What types of boas are you talking about?? It's really hard to say, without knowing what type of boa you're getting.

Was this deal in writing for "2 females"??

If the deal was "in writing" for 2 females, then his only obligation is to give you a female to replace the male. It should be one of equal or better quality. If he can't or won't then he should give you a refund. If the deal was in writing for "2 boas", then his obligation is to honor the deal.

The thing is.... You haven't said what type of boas you're getting. In some cases the males "are" worth much more than the females. If this is the case I can understand why he would ask for additional monies.

I understand what you are saying but, in my opinion it shouldnt matter what kind of boa it is. When you got to put a deposit on something and you pick out 2 specific animals then thoughs should be yours for the price given regardless of the fact. If sex was a big concern were one sex was going to be more then other then thoughs 2 boa's should have been sexed at the time the deposit was being made.

All in all here I think there should be no price change and the 2 boa's picked out at the time of deposit should be your for the same price agreed on.
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Chris Farmer
Explicit Reptiles
www.explicitreptiles.com

It sounds to me like these are "expensive boas". Since this deal was made in person, at the breeders house.... I think both parties are at fault.

The breeder is at fault for not sexing them correctly in the first place.

The buyer is at fault for assuming the breeder sexed them correctly. Like I said, it sounds like these are expensive boas. It would be the customer's right to double check the sexes. I know I would have.

BTW I'd be curious as to how the boas were sexed. Were the popped, probed, or rub tested?? Popping is 100% accutate for sexing males. It's mostly accurate for females too. The rub test is 100% accurate for both males and females if done correctly. Probing..... Well, probing "can" be very accurate for both sexes. Unfortunately if it's down wrong...... A female can be "accidentally penetrated much deeper than she should have been. That would make the person doing the sexing think it's a male. BTW I don't think baby boas should ever be probed, but that's just my opinion.

Anyway I think the customer should go back and double check the sexes on both snakes. That way there'll be no doubt as to the sexes.

Now there's a deal in writing for 2 female boas. A deposit was left for 2 female boas. Unfortunately one of them was actually a male. I still say that the breeder is only obligated to deliver 2 females. If he can't come up with one as nice or nicer than the one that turned out to be a male..... Then a full refund is in order. That is, unless they can come to an agreement that makes both parties happy.

I agree with your way of thinking Ruben. However i do feel it is a "gray" area. What if hypothetically speaking you absolutley, positively, no exceptions wanted two females and not a pair. After you got them home and found out they were mis-sexed you would probably want to send one back. Would you then be ok if he said "a deal is a deal"? Just playing a little devils advocate. I do agree with you buut i dont know if i feel it is cut and dried?

First off, my obligation as a buisness man is to make sure the costomer is 100% happy no matter what. That is and will be my policy for as long as i'm in this. In your senario, i'd do whatever the costomer would want to do. I'd never say a deal is a deal when it was my mistake no matter how expensive the snake was.

In my case I like the said animals a lot do to appearance not sex. I wanted 2 females but I would've bought these 2 either way do to looks. Them being females was just a little better at the time but if one was a male i'd of bought it anyways.

My main point is, we had a deal,with a depsit and I have a signed reciept. Were talking a 500$ dollar difference but like I said before, if it were me and even if i'd be out 5k, i'd suck it up and make sure I don't make the mistake again. Thats just how I do buisness. I know others have their own ways, thats why I wanted different opinions.

Thanks to all that have left their coments so far.

Ruben Michel

P.S. I'll be away from the computer for a few hours but will check and respond back later.

I would say that he really has no obligation to sell you something that isn't what was stated in the original agreement even if it was his mistake.....BUT

However, I think it's pretty lame of him to do so and if I were him I would accamodate you knowing that it was his mistake and he would have to end up paying for it. It's not like he would have missed it down the road....or worse asked you for $500 after it had been in your possession!!!

It's kind of like Wal-mart, if something is on the shelf and mis-priced/mis-placed then you pay that price if it's lower. Happened to me at the check out counter and I refused to pay the lower amount but they charged me the lower price anyway......bleieve it or not. Good luck Ruben

It's good to know all these fools posting above have some good business sense!!!!

You agreed on a price for 2 specific animals of a specific sex. The breeder should be asking your forgivness for their mistake, not trying to stick their mistake to you and charge you more for it..

The fact that one of the animals was the wrong sex is a deal breaker if you have a contract. It can't be met by them on those specific animals because they are not both female. I'd tell them take it or leave it. If they don't intend to provide the animals specified in the contract for the price specified in the contract tell them you want your deposit back, and look elsewhere.

If they don't like it, and won't return your deposit you can take them to small claims court since they are local enought for you to see the animals first hand. I hope you don't have to go that far, but it's an option..

Good luck.
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Ed Lilley, www.constrictorsnw.com
www.reptileinsider.com

The sexing mistake was not your error. The dealer should do everything possible to make you happy with the deal. Maybe the male was the animal you really wanted as a female.The minimum is that you should get the two animals you agreed upon for the set price. If you don't want the male then you two may be able to make another arrangement. If you want the male the dealer should be happy that it is resolved this easily.
Bill Kirby

and you put down a deposit for two specific animals, which were supposedly females, and one ended up being a male, I would:

(1) Offer you a refund for the male since you wanted a female.
(2) Offer you another female at no extra charge.
(3) Allow you to still get the same snake, even though it is a male, but not charge you more than before.

The extra cost thing doesn't sit well with me. I had one case where I put a deposit for an animal, and I had to go with a different one that would have been more. The breeder allowed me to go with the alternate, but at no extra cost to me.

It turns out the one I really wanted is the female so, i'm going to settle for a less atractive female to replace the male eventhough I feel like the majority of you and think I should be able to keep the male at the same price. At this point i'd rather settle then make it a big deal.

Thank you to everyone for taking the time to respond. It was interesting to see others buisness ethics and views.

I still stand by my views AND WOULD NEVER MAKE SOMEONE PAY FOR MY MISTAKES!! NO MATTER WHAT! I guess others have their own views of whats fair. Anyways,thanks again everyone!

Thanks, Ruben Michel

The seller sticks with whatever was originally agreed upon period. If an error was made, too bad for the seller. And if an error was made that damaged the original deal for the customer; i.e.: the animal was the opposite sex of what the buyer wanted; the seller does whatever the customer wants to make it right. The seller makes the deal right period.

I have made deals that mistakenly turned out not be in my favor but I still stuck with the deal. I have also made deals that were mistakes and not in the favor of the buyer. I do, or offer to do, whatever the customer wants to make it right. That is what you do.

Unless that breeder plans on this being his last customer and doesn't care, a bad rep getting out could and should be devestating to his business.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
10.22 BRB
10.15 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Ruben...

Oddly something just like this happended to me this week.

I had my babies sexed this year by a friend of mine as I was still learning the thumb process. I had them sexed.. put them for sale and sold a few.

First one to Andy was sold as Male.. he got a female. OH MAN this was bad on my end.. but I had to make it right. Andy and I came to an agreement and I sent him money back until he was happy. Not Andys fault.. it was mine.,, and I had to make good.

On another note I had Male number 3 sold to John.. well of course that was also one that was incorrectly sexed so I had to call John last night and tell him the male I had was in fact a female. John declined the animal, and I refunded his money this am .. in full ..including paypal fees... within hours of finding out.

If I had a female John wanted.. and it turned out to be a Male..and if that makes it worth more, personally I would have stayed with my agreement and sold at the price we agreed on, because like you said- the deal was already made. It was not Johns fault I had them sexed wrong.. it was mine. However that is just me.

I know others that do not stand behind their word like I do.. in fact I have something going on now where someone will not keep to their word or even a written contract.

All in all I am embarrassed about my situation on the mis-sexed animals but I had to do what needed to be done.. and I did it, and I feel good for it.

Hope whoever you are working with re-thinks things and sticks to the original deal you all had. Good luck and I will see you in a few weeks!!!!! NOT LONG NOW~

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Thanks
Shawn Morelan
www.Southernboids.com