Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Do you think that it is wiser to raise mice or buy from a supplier?

By wiser, I mean many things, but specifically, cost effectiveness...

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I found the cure for hope.
Stephen Diekmann
nehpets1*at*juno.com

1.0 Anerythristic Motley Cornsnake
0.1 Sunglow Motley Cornsnake
1.0 Unknown, probably normal, poss. okeetee, poss. hypo
0.1 Snow Cornsnake
0.1 Snow het Lavender het Opal Cornsnake
1.1 Butter Cornsnake
0.1 Candycane x Amelanistic Cornsnake
1.2 Ghost Coral Cornsnake
1.1 Hypo Bloodred Cornsnake
?.? 1 Hognose, Origin unknown

Of course it is cheaper to raise your own. Or not one would raise their own and deal with the work and smell.

You have to balance your time and energy to what you save. Also will your collection eat F/T, which I might say is a nice collection.

If they eat F/T then a large order from rodent pro may be ever better. Things are slow, and they have had huge sales on a lot of stuff, I talked to them and they even had to cut production a bit.

I suggest try 4-6 cages. 1.4 per cage see how you like it. Mice need seed in the diet more than rats. So a mixture of dog food and oil sunflower and maybe corn, NOT the gray stripe. I experimented with cheap oil on the dog food a few years back, mixed results. Monkey chow are great too. I never had much luck with mice. But I'm about to setup a good size setup for 150-200 breeding rats and a lot of mice.

Oh also mice will not breed in the heat over 75 or so. Males go temporarily sterol, at least that's what I have read. But they will not breed if it is hot.

HHmmm also 2 styles I know of 1 male to females 1.4 or so then there is a harem style, which needs a larger cage, say a 15 gallon tank just for reference. 2 males to 7-8 females. You will find dead males from time to time, but it can be more productive.

TONS of info on the web. read 100 pages at take the middle 30% lol

The people I see have the most babies, are the people that treat them as pets and seem to feed a few treats )people food) excess is bad of course, and will shorten breeding length. But are you breeding for mice, pinkies, fussies? it makes a difference. Breeding for pinkies real burns out mice, and you have to turn over the breeders more often, or rest them.

Here's a rhino mouse I had a few years back. I love rodents. And want to get some pouched rats again.

Good luck.

Big Tom

Doing your own, you will know how healthy they are. I work at a shop where I have known the owner for 34 years. I have dealt with a lot of people. They always want the large fat old breeder mice. A big fat mouse (to me) is not the best meal for a snake. But I eat fast foods, so I should not talk. lol

Bottom line, if you do your own, you know what is going into them. Also look for a hartland sp? feed dealer I pay $9 per 50 pounds of rat chow. I'm not 100% happy with it, but it is cheaper than dog food for the main part of the diet. Then add some oil seeds.

If you have corns, get them on rats, and feed small rats to them? I purposely got all my ball pythons on rats. A 5 week old rat is a great meal for a large adult rat snake.

Again, good luck.

Tom ,, dang I'm hungry now?

For Corn Snakes? I never thought about that. How large of rat can they eat?

Do rats produce more and/or more nutritious young?

And how much harder are they to raise?

I'll have to consider this...

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I found the cure for hope.
Stephen Diekmann
nehpets1*at*juno.com

1.0 Anerythristic Motley Cornsnake
0.1 Sunglow Motley Cornsnake
1.0 Unknown, probably normal, poss. okeetee, poss. hypo
0.1 Snow Cornsnake
0.1 Snow het Lavender het Opal Cornsnake
1.1 Butter Cornsnake
0.1 Candycane x Amelanistic Cornsnake
1.2 Ghost Coral Cornsnake
1.1 Hypo Bloodred Cornsnake
?.? 1 Hognose, Origin unknown

For me rats have always been easier. but a healthy 6 week old rat would be about as large as you could feed off.

Baby corns of course could ot eat any rat. but a well fed corn from birth might be able to go on pinky rats 1 day old at 3-5 months old.

As far as nutrition, I do not see a big difference? If I had to pick the best on a guess it would be a gerbil, they tend to stay leaner since they are hyper. DO NOT breed gerbils for feed as snakes get hooked on them. I know many people with ball pythons and that is all they will eat.

But most people like mice for corns. Maybe becasue they start on mice? Most of my corns are not picky, if it drops in the cage they eat it. But it comes down to whay you are comfatable with. 2 cages of 1.4 rats would/should/could produce a LOT of rats from 1day to 4-5 weeks old to freeze. Then maybe a few mouse case cages for the young stuff?

I sell 500-800 mice a week and 200 rats so I have it easy, I just pick what I need. But our breeders have mostly quit this year.. So it looks like I may have to do it again.

Speaking of which, I'm off to town, I live 60 miles from my work, and I need to leave. I stay a few days in town usually to save on gas, so I'm not igoring posts, just away.

It will be interesting to see feedback on feeding rats to corn when I get back. I don't think I've ever seen it talked about?

good luck

Big Tom

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This area under construction

1.3 Bearded Dragons Eenie, Meanie, Minie and Moe is the Male

1.1 Western hognose

Corn snakes
Bloodred 0.1
Zipper Amel 0.1 Erica Von Zipper
Amel 1.0 Stud Muffin
Amel 0.1 Lucy Goosey
Creamcicle 0.1 Sherbert

Double Yellow Headed Amazon - Amazona ochrocephala oratrix 0.1? Pretty Girl
Yellow Naped Amazon - Amazona ochrocephala auropalliata 1.1? Carol - Male, Foghorn Leghorn - Female
Blue Front Amazon - Amazona aestiva 1.0? Miss Prissy
Blue and Gold Macaw - Ara ararauna 0.1 April

2.0 Dogs, Michigan, Doc
0.2 Cats,, Sassie and Spooky (all black cat)
0.1 Wives, (Long term captive!,, I mean ME!) I call her (BOSS)
1.1 Kids (Paininthearsius takamemonii) J/K great kids
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tom

www.herpzilla.com

Someone had this discussion on another forum once and I read something about how adult mice are better for snakes during their peak growth because of protein in their hair....or something to that effect....I may have even read something about antibodies. Oh well....I can't remember exactly so maybe someone else can jump in.
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Sincerely, Jason
www.NortheastSnakes.com
NortheastSnakes@verizon.net

rat..lol...

Tom....I'm still always learning but I thought it was 85 degrees that made adult mice sterile?????
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Sincerely, Jason
www.NortheastSnakes.com
NortheastSnakes@verizon.net

that is an uglier sharpei than I ever had.........beat up a bit too........

....I think it is more like 85 or more..mine are breeding and it is hot enough down there....

I use kitty litter pans in a rack...1 male to 10 females (actually 14 too)......

I use lab chow, dog food, corn, (oats,seed, etc too)

I kill off tanks at 6 months of breeding...and start new tanks.

I have my own line of mutt mice.....IF you get lab grade mice they may or may not do well in your home...labs are temp regulated,humidity regulated,and cleaned twice as much as you will clean.......they get sick and die really fast in humid basements ........

/////........it's only good to breed your own if you need alot.......if you have a couple snakes.....buy bulk frozen and keep only snakes that eat frozen thawed....
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20% isn't bad
lots of snakes love them....and there are more things in the world than balls......
they breed like crazy ...........and............

My count including hatchlings is 28.

If these stupid second clutch babies ever come out, I'll be up to 36.

-----
I found the cure for hope.
Stephen Diekmann
nehpets1*at*juno.com

1.0 Anerythristic Motley Cornsnake
0.1 Sunglow Motley Cornsnake
1.0 Unknown, probably normal, poss. okeetee, poss. hypo
0.1 Snow Cornsnake
0.1 Snow het Lavender het Opal Cornsnake
1.1 Butter Cornsnake
0.1 Candycane x Amelanistic Cornsnake
1.2 Ghost Coral Cornsnake
1.1 Hypo Bloodred Cornsnake
?.? 1 Hognose, Origin unknown

I think it is smarter to buy from a supplier. It can be much more cost effective too, especially if you buy from a local supplier and save on shipping. However, I find that when you order frozen rodents and have them shipped, the shipping almost doubles the cost of the rodents. You have to factor in several things such as the cost of food and bedding for the rodents, which doesn't amount to much if you have a small colony. The biggest factor is time....your time....b/c mice require much more frequent cleaning than snakes. I had over 20 baby Nicaraguan boas last summer that would only eat live so I tried my own breeding colony. I learned a lot but found that it took more time to clean and care for the mice than the snakes so I jumped ship and went back to buying live from a local pet shop....during the school year, I was simply too busy w/teaching. It was fun though...mice can grow on you a little.
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Sincerely, Jason
www.NortheastSnakes.com
NortheastSnakes@verizon.net

Ok I'm finally back home.

1. Raising animals is cheaper than buying if you are good at it. Or no one would raise their own.

2 Protein in hair? I actually thought hair was not well digested?

3 A healthy mature mouse not over weight like they can get is probably slightly better than the same size mouse as it is not as developed (maily calcium) But snakes start on pinkies which wuld be even less developed! My possition is the difference is not that big an issue.

4 Advantage, a large adult corn I can feed 1 5-7 week old rat instead of 3-4 mice. I do not handle my stuff a lot, so a big meal is ok to me. Yes I know more small food is better because of teh way the stomach digests, but come on, a corn in the wild takes what he can get.

5 Disadvantage is you would have a lot of adult rats, and if you do not have an outlet, that can be an issue. I just bought up rats as an option.

As for 75 or 85 degrees, I'm not sure, been a while since i looked up mice stuff. 85 does seem more logical now that I think of it. But I know production drops more in summer than with rats.

6. We all have our preferences. I see advantages to each.

7. start at 1

Peace

Tom