Reptile & Amphibian Forums

With all this purity talk going on. I am curious to see some pictures of natural hybrids and intergrades. Anything that breaks the mold and isn't going to be in your field guide... lets see em.

Here is one of a gopher x cal king mix witch I believe was found in northern california. NOTE: THIS IS NOT MY PIC, I googled it a long time ago.

Cool looking snake. I applaud your honesty on saying it's not your pic, but the TOS says you cannot post other people's pics without their permission. Mr. Hubbs may have a problem with that. Another gopher/cal king natural hybrid was posted on the hybrid forum (again without the photographers permission a little while back) The post should still be there.

There is all this talk about purity, species and subspecies crosses, and locality intergrades. However I feel that these things are the rare exceptions and not the rule. I feel like the species is the unit of life on this planet. I can only think of a few examples where this may be a muddled definition in the wild.

Wow as stated go to west Texas in late Sept.-early Aug. and you will see a lot of these occurrances. Maybe we are not out in the wild enough to see it regularly but I hadn't seen any neonates but only adults so they must do ok not to be predated on early. Who knows, not many of us are in the field 24/7/364.25! How many of the billions of us care to be on the lookout for such? This is one forum in thousands with only 30-40 regular visitors. How many of us would consider ourselves field herpers? not many I warrent but there are several people that have witnessed it but may not have pics. No one really knows but it does happen!
Todd Hughes

OK, so forget the pics. Lets just talk about some of the things we have seen or even heard about. Probobly the too most common points where this issue could come up within this forum are

-the floridana, eastern, goini, brooksi complex.
and more rarely - the cal, mex, desert king intergrades.

also reported (albeit uncommonly) - getula x pituophis, getula x elaphe, and aparently some wrattlers (acording to FR's post below).

I have done my fare share of field herping and after hundreds of awesome finds, I have never found an animal that was not abviously one single species or locality type. Granted I am not in an area where there are many intergrades.

I am not sayig that there is anything unatural or wrong with these snakes. Obviously they exist in nature, so they are pure something. Pure snake. probobly more so then the quadruple het for purple axanthic polka dots king that someone has growing in their rack.

I just feel that these discusions all week have been so picky when in fact the exceptions are rare and the majority of the time the binomial classification system works pretty well to neatly describe what we are seeing. Sure its not perfect... nothing to describe an enormous biological web ever will be. But personally, when someone says is a snake a pure...blah blah blah... I hope that they can at least mean that they are a representative of a single species.

..intergrades...
TX holbrooki X splendida

AL holbrooki X nigra

:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

www.crimsonking.funtigo.com

THAT is what I am talkin about! nice deckled king! and the splack king aint too shabby either!HEHEHE! you may be seeing more intergrades than you know with snakes moving from historic ranges into new territory because of human expansion. Some snakes thrive in our man made world of concrete and steel but most need the habitat they are used to. Adapt and survive or die. Some will do both and maybe some of what you are seeing as the nominate form are in reality a combo of two or more subs. Then again, what do I know? Could be you are seeing exactly what you are describing. I am in no means disagreeing or agreeing with your position, merely adding mine, and I have seen a lot of intergrades along the zone of splendida and holbrooki because that is what I look specifically for. Are the snakes I find "pure"? I like to think so as I did ot make them, but found them as they were in nature.Even with different phenotypes at the same locale, their is something going on with these snakes. They are not bred for a specific "classic" look, they are born with what they need to survive. I find more neonates than adults, usually, and that is because I have homed in on the habitat that will most likely support breeding groups. So with all that said, I just think we should be more open minded about what is found in the field and what is possible in the breeding room. And honesty is the best policy, but buyer beware!
Todd Hughes