Reptile & Amphibian Forums

1. Snakes and cats do not get along.
2. Cats can be bastards.
3. So can snakes.
4. The sh** always hits the fan when you go on vaccation.

My most recent battle royal scenario has promted me to compile a short group of stories of past conflicts for anyones amusment.

I have a savanah cat. For those who don't know these are a serval hybrid. They are house cat sized and like them in many ways, but they look like a cheetah and are much more athletic and wild then the average kitty. I also have a normal calico kitty.

Several years ago while I was away, my father was caring for my menagerie. My 11 year old brother had permission to handle one of my snakes... evidently a responsiblity that he was not ready for. So pops recieves a frantic call from our housekeeper (who is terrified of snakes and not fond of cats) who told him, "There is a snake loose. He is in the room with the big cat. I am outside." After a panicked mad dash through NYC my father arrived home and ran up to my room to find my favorite kingsnake, a nearly 6 foot cal king, backed into a corner. My puppy tame snake was raised halfway off the ground and was hissing and striking so violently that the cat was kept at bay. The only blood spilled were the pricks on the cats nose! One for the blue team.

About a year later I had gone away for the weakend. I had suspected that my dumerils boa was going to give birth soon and asked my father to keep an eye out for babies. This was my first time breeding boas, or any live bearing snake for that matter. She was in a custom made cage that I was reasonably confident would contain the babies as well. No... She threw a litter of slugs with only one live hatchling, wich my father found half eaten in the middle of the floor. One for the red team.

I had a holdback king in a ten gallon tank. While no one was home a cat (i wonder which) must have knocked the tank to the ground shattering it everywhere. Happy accident for him. I found the neonate under the bookshelf with a few gashes and an amputated tail tip. An unhappy tie.

I now live with two other cats and several roomates. I spent the past week in Mexico. Upon my return I recieved a 4 day old message from a roomie saying, "um your room is a mess and if that drawer on the top right of the rack had a snake in it... well it doesn't any more!" I do have a system for stoping my cats from getting into my racks but this particular drawer was turned sideways to allow a different heat gradient. Since my cats have pretty much given up on trying to get into the rack I thought that they wouldn't notice. NO... The little dude (a 2 week old cal king) had a 4 day head start. And there was no garantee that she had not been eaten during whatever ruccus caused an entire bag of aspen to be spread across the floor of the room. I tore apart that room. I tore apart the room next to it. Its 3:00 am and I'm getting pissed. I go to sleep unhappy. I halfheartedly search the rest of the house... Repeatedly. I have dreams of being evicted when said snake if found by neighbors. I jump awake every time I hear the cats playing thinkning they may have found it. Tonight I emptied every pocketbook and backpack in the hallway and low and behold, in the very bottom of the last bag is a very dehydrated little kingsnake! YAY! Then I had a funny thought. Imagine my roomate going out and digging through her purse in macys only to pull out a snake. Heheheheh

-cheers

Growing up - I had a cat named Jessica.
She was a dumb cat. I generally like intelligent cats, but this one was just plain dumb.

At any rate - she sniffed my Southern Alligator Lizard, which decided to bite her on the nose. The lizard must have hit just the right nerve, because she stumbled around on the bed - and then fell off, and didn't land on her feet.

-=-

Unrelated - I had a pair of Burmese Pythons growing up - it was a hot day, and I had one of them around my neck (this was when they were only about 5 feet long) while sipping ice tea. The next thing I knew, the snake was drinking the ice tea right out of my teacup.

-=-

Completely unrelated - when we remodeled our bathroom, we had to punch a hole in the wall to do plumbing. After finishing the plumbing, we patched the wall. A few hours later, we heard a cat howling - from inside the wall. Needless to say, we had to cut another hole in the wall.
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3.0 WC; 0.1 CB L. getula californiae
0.1 CB L. pyromelana pyromelana
0.1 WC; 10 eggs (7/11) Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata

)

HOLY CRAP you made me laugh...a cat in the wall that would hae been a funny experience

I have 2 Cats, and 7 snakes. I love my cats, and I love my snakes, but if one of my cats jacked up one of my snakes it'd take an awful lot of self-control to keep me from killing the cat right there on the spot.

reako45

I can imagine - when I found my female cal king in the Pyro cage and my pyro gone - I had to sit down and calm myself for a second, and remind myself that it was my fault, not the snakes - she only did what is natural.

I have to cats (Daniel, named after the prophet - and cleopatra, named after elizabeth taylor) - Daniel was a feral kitten kicked out of the nest for being sickly. You wouldn't know he had ever been feral now. Anyway - he loves to watch my young cal kings - but he never paws at the glass, he watched them like a TV set. They seem to have figured out there is a physical barrier.

Cleo rarely takes interest, but when I let them out - she's the one that brings wild snakes in (so far exclusively sharp-tailed snakes). She always gives them to me unharmed as a gift though. I then put them back outside, since they are difficult to care for in captivity.
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3.0 WC; 0.1 CB L. getula californiae
0.1 CB L. pyromelana pyromelana
0.1 WC; 10 eggs (7/11) Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata

> I can imagine - when I found my female cal king in the Pyro cage
> and my pyro gone - I had to sit down and calm myself for a
> second, and remind myself that it was my fault, not the snakes -
> she only did what is natural.

To avoid issue of the pyro cage ever not being secured again (I forgot to put the cotter pin in the sliding screen after adding ice to the water dish - heat wave) - I think I'm going to add magets.

It's a 10 Gallon aquarium with a screen that slides in - but the screen only goes halfway, there's a piece of glass in the other half.

If I glue magnets to the top of the glass and magnets to the top of the screen, it should keep it securely closed if I forget to insert the pin ever again.

The tank the cal king escaped from was securely closed - but the clips to hold the screen on apparently don't work well enough for king snakes. I've got weight on it now, and I saw her testing it today - she tested it in several places.

Once I get her a new cage (wood) I'm not using it for snakes anymore. I'll probably give it to my little brother for the alligator lizards I've promised him.
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3.0 WC; 0.1 CB L. getula californiae
0.1 CB L. pyromelana pyromelana
0.1 WC; 10 eggs (7/11) Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata

Is the EXACT reason why I don't keep cats.

I average a good number of snake escapes every year. But I also average a good number of finds throughout my house.

With a cat, there is a 99% chance (in my opinion) if you find an escapee, it will not be alive.

How is that holdback cali king doing anyway? You still have her?
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Mike
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
www.freewebs.com/mikesnake
Updated 7/10
www.captivebredforum.com

> I average a good number of snake escapes every year. But I also
> average a good number of finds throughout my house.
>
> With a cat, there is a 99% chance (in my opinion) if you find an
> escapee, it will not be alive.

With large snakes (adult kings), that's rarely an issue. They usually can fend for themselves quite well, though injury is a possibility. Every place I've lived that has had wild snakes, the cats never bring in a large snake - only small snakes, and back when I had lots of snakes - an adult escapee was never the victim of a cat.

With small snakes, it is a concern. If I ever go with a rack system, I would build it to allow for lids for the small snakes, simply to avoid or reduce the issue.

If using aquariums, don't use the thin kind of screen - use heavy duty screen that can support the weight of a cat. Hollar at the cats if they do sit on it, of course, even if it can support their weight.
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3.0 WC; 0.1 CB L. getula californiae
0.1 CB L. pyromelana pyromelana
0.1 WC; 10 eggs (7/11) Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata

With large snakes (adult kings), that's rarely an issue. They usually can fend for themselves quite well, though injury is a possibility. Every place I've lived that has had wild snakes, the cats never bring in a large snake - only small snakes, and back when I had lots of snakes - an adult escapee was never the victim of a cat.

With small snakes, it is a concern.

Adult kingsnakes.... Get found...

Most of what I've had get out WERE small snakes. Ringneck snakes are usually found... Baby kingsnakes completely disappear... I have a night snake that's been loose for a week now that isn't coming back.

In the last year I've had 4 adult kingsnake escapes. 2 of which were from the same snake. I found her both times. Unfortunately one of them was never found and probably never will be.
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Mike
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
www.freewebs.com/mikesnake
Updated 7/10
www.captivebredforum.com

It has always seemed to me that you have an extraordinary amount of escapees. How do you keep your snakes that so many get out all the time?

In my 14 years of snake keeping I have only had 4 snakes ever make it out of their cage. All 4 were the stories above. and directly trelated to cats or little bros.

It has always seemed to me that you have an extraordinary amount of escapees. How do you keep your snakes that so many get out all the time?

I do have too many escapes... But that's because I keep a very different array of species and they don't all accept the containers they're in lol. I keep MOST of the collection in 20 qt. sterilite containers. Not in a rack system, some containers are on top of each other.

Here are the latest escapes from the sterilites...

Eastern milk snake and corn snake... Babies, both were in the same enclosure, who knows how they got out. Corn snake was found dead, smashed from a door. That was towards October 05...

Adult eastern king female, I fed her a gopher snake and my brother didn't snap the lid back on properly... She was found a week later outside making a break for it. That was in summer 05. Then she got out in spring 06 because I didn't snap the lid on properly after feeding her, and she was found in the basement, I didn't even know she escaped LOL.

Regal ringneck snake adult, after eating I don't disturb them... She slipped out. Couple days later I went to feed her and she was nowhere around. Found her in the snake room hiding under some newspaper. She then got out again that same day AFTER eating LOL, and was found a couple minutes later under some books and boxes. She was too smart to be kept in a sterilite, so she now resides in a critter keeper. That was in summer 05.

Albino striped cali king and normal striped cali king, these girls escaped which made me mad as I had them for breeding stock. They were being kept in a sterilite with baby oiled paper towels to rid them of mites that was sweeping through my collection. And they escaped never to be seen again. That was in winter 05.

Enough of the sterilites...

I had a night snake escape out of it's deli cup the day I got it. The lid never snapped on properly. It stayed on if I put a couple other cups on top of it. I didn't learn. The wind one day blew the top cups over, and the night snake made a break for it. That was last week.

I had an adult female cali king in a 10 gallon tank. I had 4 sterilites on top of the container holding the lid down, but I had moved them that week to get rid of the mites. She pushed the lid right off the tank and I never saw her again. That was in fall 05.

It's all trial and error. You live and you learn. Most of the mistakes were simple and preventable ones... But it happens. Besides the fact that last year was an extremely bad year and escapes were the least of my problem. I had very few escapes in 2006. I'm pretty sure there were only 2 escapes this year.
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Mike
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
www.freewebs.com/mikesnake
Updated 7/10
www.captivebredforum.com

> I had an adult female cali king in a 10 gallon tank. I had 4
> sterilites on top of the container holding the lid down, but I
> had moved them that week to get rid of the mites. She pushed the
> lid right off the tank and I never saw her again. That was in
> fall 05.

That's how my female got out - except I was using clips that slip under the side of the tank - they don't apply enough pressure, and she got out.

Now I have bricks on top (it's sturdy screen).

I'm not going to use regular aquariums anymore for largish snakes (she's about 32 inches) - only wooden cages with dooes on a hinge that latch from the outside. More expensive for the cage, but the snakes don't get out.
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3.0 WC; 0.1 CB L. getula californiae
0.1 CB L. pyromelana pyromelana
0.1 WC; 10 eggs (7/11) Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata

could really use a rack system. Just the cost of one or two lost snakes would justify the price. Lids, clips, and bricks, are just asking for trouble. I'd recomend a rack system WITHOUT lids. I speak from experience here as I've lost a few myself before I started building my own racks.

I have to admit though this does make for some very entertaining and funny reading. But it is deadly serious for your snakes.

There are some cheap and really easy to build rack systems you can get at Lowes or Home Depot. Contact me if want some info on them.

Here's a pic of a hatchling rack I just built. This could just a easily hold some larger containers. Everything is precut, you just screw it together.

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Vichris

Vichris Variables

I will build a rack system at some point, but I will always have display tanks because for me, watching the snakes is a big part of keeping them.

Eventually when I have enough snakes, I probably will go with a rack system and rotate the snakes through the display tanks.

Sure, a kingsnake in a display tank spends a lot of time in the required hiding spots, but they also come out and crawl about, especially in the evening, and it never gets old watching them - it's better than most current TV shows (I listen to TV more than I watch it, believe it or not).

This fall I'm taking a woodworking class. First I'm going to my custom display caging, enough for all my snakes plus a few - then I'll build a baby rack (I hope to breed one pair next year, three pairs the following) - and then maybe a big snake rack.

A rack now though isn't what I want - I want to be able to watch them through clear glass, with decorative water dishes and hiding spots, etc.
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3.0 WC; 0.1 CB L. getula californiae
0.1 CB L. pyromelana pyromelana
0.1 WC; 10 eggs (7/11) Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata

I have a couple of display tanks too with all the background stuff. But I only put my snakes in there temporaraly. It is fun to watch them in a clear tank. And when I put them in the tank they are always very active. My neices and nephews are over here at my house now watching some of my snakes feed and just crawl around in the display tank. Both of my display tanks have a slide in lid with the strong screen and pin.
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Vichris

Vichris Variables

The display tanks I'm intending to build will be plywood, with a glass front (glass framed in wood - real glass, not plexi - I'll be sure to use a safety glass so earthquakes, rare in Redding but possible, won't result in shards) hinged to a substrate damn so that the entire front flips down for easy cleaning. I'm going to go 3' wide, 2' deep, and 16" high (outside dimensions) - flexwatt heat source with a "poor mans" thermostat (rheostat to limit current and an on/off thermostat that shuts it off when too warm to prevent overheating when ambient air is 90F inside during the dog days of Redding - on/off aren't recommended for flexwatt, but I'll use the rheostat for adjustment and just use the on/off thermostat as an emergency shutoff to prevent tragedy)

I might use some of the display cages as permanent cages for the males (most of what I have right now anyway) because introducing the female to the males cage is suppose to be the most succesful method for breeding. That's what I was told and what worked for me eons ago, anyway.
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3.0 WC; 0.1 CB L. getula californiae
0.1 CB L. pyromelana pyromelana
0.1 WC; 10 eggs (7/11) Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata

I was waiting for the right moment to build a rack system...

Last year I had a couple things wipe through my collection (crypto, mites, and escapes), with crypto and mites, if I had a rack system then my entire collection would've been wiped out due to how close everything would've been.

After moving all of my snakes out of the snake room for 7 months, nuking my old snake room with provent-a-mite LOL and throwing away diseased, infected containers. I almost have the new snake room (completely different room) ready.

And that was when I was planning on building a rack system lol. I might, I might not, who knows, I have no problem with the way the snakes are being kept now.
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Mike
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
www.freewebs.com/mikesnake
Updated 7/10
www.captivebredforum.com

np
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www.BugChick.com

chickabowwow

We always have 2-4 resident felines. In our old house, we had fewer herps, many of which were in the living room. My husband and I used to joke about the the cats watching "lizard-tv"--a tank with a pair of active golden geckos. The cats would sit on top and peer down into the tank, tails twitching.

We usually joked about this as we were fashioning yet a new and improved version of the wire clips to hold the heat lamps on top of the screen tops. When they weren't watching LTV, the cats learned how to unhook & knock a heat lamp off just right on it's side, so they could bask in the warmth. (We checked the batteries in the smoke detectors monthly.)

The dog was different. My Bci was about 3 ft. long, eating a rat in a cardboard feeding box. My young Rhodesian Ridgeback knocked the box over. I turned just in time to see the boa come shooting out of the box and after the dog, a rat tail hanging out of her mouth!
The dog jumped up on the couch. The boa stopped and finished swallowing her rat, then reared up like some psycho cobra, puffing and hissing. At just that moment my husband walked in the front door. Surveying the scene he remarked dryly, "I certainly hope you have this on film for World's Funniest Animals." To this day, every time I enter the room with a boa, the dog immediately finds another part of the house to call her own.

We now live in a house with a separate herp room attached, and it is a NO FUR ZONE. There is a lovely french door which remains closed. When I am working in there however, it is not unusual for several furry faces to be stationed at the door, watching and wanting to be on the other side! None of the faces is ever canine.

rgds,
althea

Wow!!!! That was a good thread to read! I can't believe what you have went through my friend.
Here is a pic of Mammakatt hanging with my Kingsville, Tx red bull. There may have been trouble though if I would have had the snake there longer than I did.

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Genesis 1:1

My fiance and I adopted a two year old Russian blue mix last year. This cat is not only one of the most lovable and affectionate felines that I've had the pleasure of knowing, but she is also a world class snake catcher...and the best part is she brings 'em back alive. Last fall she proudly sauntered up to me and dropped something at my feet, a baby eastern king that had escaped from his Boaphile rack the week earlier. While I was in shock staring blankly at the scene unfolding before me, the uninjured king bolted for the nearby stove. Jaz, again saving my a$$, gently pawed the king and held it in place for the second it took me to grasp what was occuring and pick -up the pissed, but otherwise perfect snake. She has since guided me to two more out of reach, escaped baby kings (same damn rack) and pointed them out to me, by staring intently at a spot and meowing and tail twitching until I brought my clueless butt over to investigate. So I guess I am one of the few lucky snake keepers who has a cat with a catch and release (to me anytway) policy.

Beautiful cats by the way!

Will

Pretty funny stories.........came home last night to find my kids four ducks tearing apart a ribbon snake in the backyard. I knew they got the odd frog, but didn't think about snakes.

Nice cats - I've got 4.

I have had escapees turn up:

Wedged behind the water heater 3X (Ball Python)
In the bread box (Garter)
In the closet with the shoes 2X (Chain King)
Climbng up the door jamb 3X (Cal King and Chain King)
Inside an electric powerstrip (Baby Corn)
Surrounded by 4 cats with murder on their minds (Baby Corn)
Under bookshelves 2X (Ball)
Under the bathroom sink (Large Angry Boa)
rying to find the way into the gerbils' cage (Ball)
At least one babby corn left a poop in my wife's panty drawer.
And a redear slider under a rug.

Then there was the Honduran milk that never turned up - far as I know he may still be living at the house we moved out of several years ago.

Cheers!

John D
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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"