Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here are some pics of the latest clutch to hatch. The albino hybrid rock/burms het granite. They have an amazing deep lavender and a stark bright yellow border surrounding a deep, almost neon orange.

There's nothing like them on the planet (literally, lol), except of course our albino hybrids het green, which are similar but still very unique in their own incredible way.

Enjoy! Let's hear some comments on these amazing guys.

Our Website!

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David Beauchemin
High End Herps.Inc
http://HighEndHerps.com

Amazing looking . I used to belong to a Reptile club and they had an "emergency' meeting because someone sent them a letter with pics of king/corn hybrids saying that if the reptile club didnt deposit $10,000 into their Caiman island bank account they were going to flood the market in Miami with jungle corns and sell them cheap as pure corns .

Lol this happened like a yr ago . Those guys were very anal so it was funny but I dont know whatever became of it as left the club . I dont suppose you would do that with those huh?
Just let me know what petstore you intend to pass them off as reg pythons lol.

No offense meant, but they are only marginally different from a nice high contrast amel burm. You can see enough sebae influence that they are obviously of hybrid origin but the rock
influence isn't enought to make them truly unique. The 75% Burmese x retics that Bob Clark produced were distinctive even as 3/4 hybrid. But with Rocks & Burms being so similar in appearance to start with I don't think you will ever get anything as impressive as burticks. I don't mean to slam the project but I think you would be better off crossing these animals with a Retic at this point. I mean even though they are nice little orange pythons, they are a cross of probably the worst tempered of the large pythons (Rocks)and the most overproduced large pythons (Burms) And the orange will most likely dissappear with time as Rocks don't gain any color with age...they often become even darker than your average burm does.....so they will grow into big yellow & white snakes that look even more like pure amel burms....don't you think? I do applaud you for one thing, at the prices they are advertised for there's NO chance of them ending up in pet stores.

Horridus

Don't listen to the naysayers, the detractors, the haters . . . I think these are the ultimate hybrid. I've never seen such an extreme snake, and I think that they are well worth the price tag. We're on the verge of a herpetological conquest . . . the new investment python is here.

I can't believe anyone would say that these even resemble pure albino Burms . . . they have to be at least 5% more orange--maybe even 10%! I also admire the hard work this cross must have taken. After all, we can all imagine how difficult it must be to get Burms and rocks to breed together . . . I bet tricks were used that I can't even dream of. I think the lack of Burm x rock hybrids on the market today is definitely a testament to the difficulty of making such snakes.

I believe all the negativity stems deep down from jealousy. Not only have these people put in their time, but they've also had the vision to push the herpetocultural envelope farther than anyone could have imagined. I stand up, and give High End Herps a round of applause!

Okay, okay, y'all are in my will, sheesh! lol

Seriously though, thank you very much for all the nice things you said about us and about our hybrids. I, we appreciate that greatly. Not to imply that the occasional criticisms bother us any. They don't. Not only do we not expect every person to like or recognize the same things, the world don't work that way, but we also understand the frustration of those that might not have the best luck at breeding and might resent our good fortune. We wish them only the very best and we hope they have great luck in future breedings so that they too can have wonderful little beauties to enjoy.

Yes, these hybrids are certainly the cutting edge of future designer morphs. Over the next 2 or 3 years we are going to bring them in to 50/50 albino hybrids homo for granite, labyrinth, green and rock patternless. To create 50/50's takes a lot of time, multiple generations and efforts to make reverse-percentile offspring (75% rock/25% burm het albino) to breed back to the 75% burm hybrids. It can actually get very involved and complex, most especially when dealing with secondary het pattern morphs such as granite, laby, green and patternless thrown into the mix.

All this while we are also focusing on albino bateaters, albino tiger bats, super bats, rock/retic het albino, triple hybrid rock/burm/retic and many, many, many other combinations. The posibilities are truly limitless. Think about all the retic morphs to integrate into the mix. Coupling them each with either albino strain or both. In triple hybrid, multi-morph combos. It's just staggering.

Take a look at this little lady that is dbl het albino granite. She's turning yellow already. Before she shed her first time her blotches were solid golden.

Our Website!

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David Beauchemin
High End Herps.Inc
http://HighEndHerps.com

Ok, I want to preface this by saying this is not an attack in any way, merely a critique. Furthermore, I know that I have been attacked and judged several times and I love to defend myself because for the most part I don't care what other people say anyway. By your comments I would assume that you have a solid opinion of what you are doing and would defend your choices - so I would respect you for that. That being said, let me say my piece.

While these amel hybrids that you have posted are definitely interesting looking and unique, I don't believe that they are something remarkably different. I agree with the other poster who said that they are VERY similar to burmese, and apparently the difference in pattern is due not to the hybrid, but rather to the labyrinth influence. While I applaud you for your price, I feel it is inflated, but I will be the first to compliment you if you are actually getting that for these animals. I read a lot of the information on your website, and I love a lot of the things you have had to say. As a matter of fact, your thoughts on the whole Ball Python market are SPOT ON! The crash has been building up for a long time, and it is almost like trying to identify the antichrist and the second coming, because it is due any day now. The bulk of the 'morphs' are simply aberrent animals that people have sifted from HUGE shipments, immediately giving them some goofy name and capitalizing on them fast. Honestly, have you looked at a pastel? It is just a light phase for gosh sakes! But, I digress (my blood pressure rises when I talk about ball pythons).

Anyway, I think that your breeding program is a little off with the way that you produce 75% hybrids of either parent and then breed them back to the opposite 75% hybrid to just produce 50/50s again. You are doubling the time it takes to produce 50% hybrids for not much real gain. Add to that the fact that I think it is irresponsible to produce 75% hybrids (which are really just backcrosses and have a lot of throwbacks to the 75% bloodlines to the point of being nearly indistinguishable often) because this just muddies the waters and opens up the possiblilities for fraud down the line - I have seen a lot of people do this, particularly because they get to a point where they themselves as breeders can't keep track of what they are producing. I think the only time you would want to produce 75% or more hybrids is if you are trying to produce an amel that will mimic an amel of a species where the amel doesn't yet exist, ala the blair's amels.
I see why you work your breeding program the way you do, so that you don't have probable hets, but if you don't agree in probable hets, just sell them as normals! Once you get an amel 50/50 just breed it back to hets and you won't have probables anymore. Not to mention you have just cut your breeding time in half AND more importantly, you haven't put a lot of 75% hybrids out on the market.

Hopefully you won't really take offense here. I think you have a good business practice and wish you all of the best. Again, kudos for your Ball Python rant!!!
Glenn

No, of course I am in no way offended. Even when I see the occasional post stating that I "only produce worthless trash mutts" I am not offended. Beauty and to an equal extent, value, are in the eye of the beholder. I know people that think lamborginis are ugly. It's all relative. Also, no matter how many people may not find what I produce attractive, there are a hundred times more that think they are the best looking morphs they have ever seen. The folks that find unique beauty in these FAR outnumber the occasional person that finds only ugliness.

I appreciate your comments and they were all very well put and very eloquent. I think more importantly that *what* is said is *how* it is said, that makes all the difference.

Also, no offense intended back to you in any way, but maybe you should try producing some 50/50 albino hybrids before you suggest the best way to do it. I get well-intended advice all the time from folks that have never even bred a single snake (not implying anything by this. I don't know you and maybe you breed hundreds of snakes each year) but it's just mind boggling. How does a person give advice on something they have never done and have no experience doing?

Just like when I read posts about that "typical rock attitude" from a poster that never even owned a rock, or posters that may have owned one imported specimen that was scared and bit up their arm. I have seen these type of ignorant "cookie cutter view" posts concerning many species from bloods to retics and everything in between that spew off inherited misinformation. And they are always wrong. There is a wide spectrum of disposition to be found within all species. But these myths keep getting passed around as solid fact.

Those kinds of things get to me a bit. Simply because hundreds, if not thousands of would-be rock keepers (or whatever species) read this and believe it as gospel and close their minds to raising a rock. Then many of them repeat the same bullhucky in their own future posts, lol.

Anyway, I got off on a rant. Have a blessed day and thanks for your input/feedback.
Our Website!

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David Beauchemin
High End Herps.Inc
http://HighEndHerps.com

**No, of course I am in no way offended. Even when I see the occasional post stating that I "only produce worthless trash mutts" I am not offended. Beauty and to an equal extent, value, are in the eye of the beholder. I know people that think lamborginis are ugly. It's all relative. Also, no matter how many people may not find what I produce attractive, there are a hundred times more that think they are the best looking morphs they have ever seen. The folks that find unique beauty in these FAR outnumber the occasional person that finds only ugliness.**

I am glad you are not offended. And I realize about beauty in the eye of the beholder. Perhaps you misunderstand. In no way do I think that what you have produced is ugly. They are very nice. But the 'best looking morphs they have ever seen' - come on! I've seen a lot of animals and morphs and I would be hard pressed to pick one that is the best. All are unique in their own rights. Also, I realize you are trying to embellish here, but are you really saying that you have been contacted by 'hundreds' of people who state they are the best looking morphs they've ever seen? Let me say again that they are not ugly, just not remarkably unique. Place your pic next to a pic of a labyrinth and looking for differences would be like a 'Where's Waldo' instead oo looking for an elephant in a room full of ants.

**I appreciate your comments and they were all very well put and very eloquent. I think more importantly that *what* is said is *how* it is said, that makes all the difference. **

Good, I hate to degrade to insults and the like. We are all people that enjoy our hobby.

**Also, no offense intended back to you in any way, but maybe you should try producing some 50/50 albino hybrids before you suggest the best way to do it. I get well-intended advice all the time from folks that have never even bred a single snake (not implying anything by this. I don't know you and maybe you breed hundreds of snakes each year) but it's just mind boggling. How does a person give advice on something they have never done and have no experience doing? **

I realize you don't know me and I don't take offense. A lot of the way I approached critiquing you was so that you would believe that I had some knowledge. I have bred hybrids for many years, although I consider myself in no way a pioneer. I wrote the first published article on hybrids in the 90s, but hybridizations were going on in the seventies, so that is nothing new. Also I was the first to prove that Corn and King amels were allelic. So what I am saying is that I have produced A LOT of 50/50 amel hybrids and pride myself on all of my hybrids being as evenly blooded as possible, i.e. - 50/50, 25/25/25/25, 12.5/12.5, etc. Putting a lot of 75% hybrids on the market honestly does muddy the breeding pool. Sure, you get more amels faster, but they are not as unique. As honest as I want to be about my hybrids to people, I have actually had someone say - hey I love that king you sold me, what was it again? - YEARS later when I don't have any idea what they bought from me and have to try to identify a picture of a hybrid, only to find out that they sold the rest of the group they bought as a pure blooded this or that. I realize we are talking about personal responsibility here, but my main point is that a 75% hybrid it TOO identical to the parent with the greatest blood. I'VE SEEN IT! So wouldn't it be much easier just to keep the animals 50/50 down the entire line than worry about backcrosses? Actually, I even believe that a backcross is worse than if you took a 50/50 and bred it to a 100% of a completely different species. At least then you wouldn't have opened up the pandora's box of confusion.

**Just like when I read posts about that "typical rock attitude" from a poster that never even owned a rock, or posters that may have owned one imported specimen that was scared and bit up their arm. **

You get no arguement from me on this. I think this is beside the point. Who cares what the temperament is of a snake if we are talking about aesthetic beauty. Amel cobras are beautiful, but I wouldn't take them dancing.

Cheers,
GLENN

That was probably the best post I've ever seen on this forum...
"5% - maybe even 10%..." That's just vicious.