Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey gang,
Looking to see if anyone can point me in the direction (web addresses/distributors) of liquid calcium drops. I've heard good things about this once a week dosage and I’m curious to hear if anyone has good feed back on such a product or similar products

I know that there are very good for gravid females and for after the female has just laid. Never tried them though. Cricketfood.com has some i think..

this is a very concentrated form of calcium and should only be used under the advice of a qualified reptile vet. It is not something to use as a regular source of calcium (that should be obtained from proper feeder gutloading and dusting as needed). It is typically used for females before or after she has laid a clutch b/c so much calcium can be depleted. It is also used for MBD. If you have a normally healthy chameleon than I would not bother with it. The dosage is based on the weight of your animal and therefore should be prescribed by your vet.

This is just my experience and opinion. There was a lengthy discussion about it on another forum that I can direct you to if you email me (as I cannot post that here

lele
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Chameleon Help & Resource Info
1.0 Nosy Be Panther Chameleon - Cyrus
0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
1.1.1 Side-blotched lizards - Ana and Stan and Stan Jr.!
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skippy
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh, Died 4/21/06
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha, donated to science 4/4/06
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet

Lele is right - this stuff (neocalglucon is an example) is an excellent emergency source of calcium, but it is not a supplement.
This stuff is for if your chameleon is sick, or depleted its calcium supply for some reason. Basically, if there is somethign WRONG with your chameleon.

A healthy chameleon doesn't need this under normal circumstances. For that matter, a healthy female chameleon doens't need this if she's gravid, or even after she's laid eggs.

This stuff has become popular as a weekly source of calcium for chameleons, and I have wondered why. I recently found out that several mass breeders are reccomending it to their customers. These breeders goal is to get as many babies out of each female as often (and as soon) as possible.

By feeding mass quantities of food, they have females producing eggs as early as 4 months. The factors that lead to their reproductive system turning on so early also cause it to get out of control. The result is females producing eggs not every 6 months, but every 2-3 months. When they're laying clutches of 50-70 eggs, every 60-90 days, normal biological sources of calcium and D3 cannot keep up. Superconcentrated calcium, in an easy to absorb form, is the only way to maintain this sort of reproductive rate.

These breeders, not thinking what they're doing is unnatural or even "bad", informt heir customers of their practice. And it is believed by many to be a normal, perfectly ok way of supplying calcium.

These drops can cause diarrhea, impacting the absobtion of other nutrients (and water)into the body, which makes them potentially dangerous in long term usage.

can cause calcification of soft tissue and organs:
Calcification is a process in which the mineral calcium builds up in tissue, causing it to harden. This can be a normal or abnormal process.

Ninety-nine percent (99%) of calcium entering the body is deposited in bones and teeth and the remaining 1% of calcium is dissolved in the blood. When a disorder affects the balance between calcium and other minerals or hormones, calcium can be deposited in other parts of the body, such as arteries, kidneys, lungs, and brain. Calcium deposits in these parts of the body can cause problems with the function of these organs.

My female veiled was given NCg under the guidance of my vet due to her ongoing calcium imbalance. There are several places online that you can get it, but I found that it is not always the same type of calcium (Ca glubionate, gluconate and others). The dosing is different and in my opinion, and Eric's, is not worth the risk as a regular supplement.

lele
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Chameleon Help & Resource Info
1.0 Nosy Be Panther Chameleon - Cyrus
0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
1.1.1 Side-blotched lizards - Ana and Stan and Stan Jr.!
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skippy
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh, Died 4/21/06
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha, donated to science 4/4/06
?.? Pinktoe Tarantula - no name yet

Correct me if I'm wrong, but calcium absorption is limited/controlled by the amount of vitamin D3 available. If the reptile is getting UVB or sunlight to produce the vitamin D3 then the body self-limits the amount of calcium that can be absorbed. If you give vitamin D3 in the form of a supplement, then it goes directly into the system and plays a part in the amount of calcium that can be absorbed which is where the absorption of too much calcium comes into play and mineralization of organs.

http://www.uvguide.co.uk/vitdpathway.htm
"The vitamin D3 is released from the skin cell membranes and is taken up by a "vitamin D-binding protein" into the plasma. It is thus carried in the bloodstream from the skin to the liver, where it is hydroxylated to calcediol, 25-hydroxy-vitamin D3."

"Calcediol is then circulated in the bloodstream all around the body. In the kidneys, some is converted to the active hormone calcetriol.This plays a major part in calcium metabolism, governing the levels of calcium in the blood by controlling absorption of calcium from the gut and also from the bones, should dietary levels be inadequate for the body's needs."

"However, hypervitaminosis-D is not known to occur in basking reptiles (or any other species) obtaining their vitamin D from sunlight, regardless of how long they bask.23 This is because there are inbuilt safety mechanisms preventing overproduction of vitamin D in the skin."

This being said...I don't use calcium gluconate for my chameleons normally. It can be useful if there's an egglaying problem or in severe cases of MBD. It can do harm if the egglaying is from a physical problem (eggs too big to lay, fused eggs, reproductive tract deformities)...so its best to use it under a vet's guidance. And it can do more harm than good if the lizard is being given too much vitamin D3 supplement. Vitamin A balance also figures in here.

Another good read on the subject.

Thanks Brad.
Vitamin D3 and Calcium by Kenneth Lopez, D.V.M.

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CANADIAN SILKWORMS

Thanks everyone for your input and advice. I asked this question due to a gravid panther in my position that has considerably lowered her intake of feeders as well as water. I have taken appropriate measures to insure she has all her needs met as well as a 109l Rubbermaid lay box. I apologize for not responding sooner but my only online access is at work. Due to her aliments, I have taken days off from work to tend to her and mist more frequently. I also have taken fecal samples to a vet that has been list on a national list of rep vets. Unfortunately I have not yet been informed of the results, after I have called several times. The only response was "Well, I'm pretty sure she has something but I cant say what." A fecal examine only takes a matter of hours. Needless to say I'm not too happy with this and will be looking for a new animal hospital. Actually if you don't mind me venting, the receptionist did not even know what a chameleon was. WHAT! She compared it to a bearded dragon and asked if it was similar. Should have known then! Well, sorry for that last part, and I will keep you posted