Reptile & Amphibian Forums

background info.
i have had this pair for about 6 years and bred them 4 or 5 times producing around 107 babies total. this year was the first year she double clutched. shes never mated with another male ever. another male was introduced once but removed after 2 minutes do to him spazzing out(smashing head against glass and screen to get away)i watche dthe whole time their bodies never even touched.
so here is the scoop. the female is a normal het anery het hypo.
male is a snow het hypo. i get on the average 1/8 hypo, 1/8 ghost,3/8 anery, 3/8 normals.
well my second clutch just started hatching and 1 baby is pink and white like a snow. pink with white borders. im going to wait until after shed and see if the color shanges a little, by the way the eyes glow red. out of 107 babies only one like this and never an amel. how could i produce a snow with my female not being het albino? i will show pics post shed. the only other thing i could see it being is an extreme hypo ghost, so light it looks pink instead of purplish.
please give me some opinions here
adam
p.s. im calling k.love tomarrow
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hybrid breeders association
0.0.17 baby corns
16 corn eggs-due aug 5th
5 leo eggs-due aug 1st
0.1. normal corn het hypo,anery
1.0. snow corn het hypo,anery,amel
1.0. amel corn unknown hets(4ft 8inch long)
1.0 sinacorn
1.1 kenyan sand boas
0.1 mbk
0.1 albino nelsons
0.2 normal leo geckos
1.0 blizzard leo gecko
0.0.1 3 lined mud turtle

Your sinacorn shot his package by telekinesis. Hybrids have extra powers.

Really, no idea. Maybe a new gene popped up? If so lucky you. Pop up some pics I'd like to see what the answer is..

Big Tom

Well, since the female is the one that laid the eggs, and it is her genetics about which you are asking, the presence of another male is really irrelevant to the question this time (but some of those males are really QUICK in breeding, so if they were in the same tank together you CAN'T rule out a quick copulation...trust me).

However, if she had a snow (or amel) hatchling, your female is het for amel. It doesn't matter if she produced 106 other hatchlings that weren't amel...that one proves that she is beyond any doubt.

The reason you didn't have any others before now is because that Murphy is a funny guy!
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Darin Chappell
Hillbilly Herps
PO Box 254
Rogersville, MO 65742

Okay, given you've been breeding this female to a snow for over 100 babies, the chances of her being actually het amel and yet never getting a single amel baby are small. Very small.

It's at this point where the odds of something else happening start sounding reasonable. You may have witnessed a spontaneous mutation. In this case, all that would need to happen would be for the gene at the amel locus to mutate to match the amel gene contributed by the male. The baby then grows up displaying the amel gene, even though its mom never carried the gene herself.

Random mutations happen all the time, and most go undetected (especially if they're recessive).

-Kat
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This Space For Rent

>>The very light ghost is a possibility.
I didn't beleive it the first time I saw it mentioned here but there have been some red eyed ghosts show up.
I think Jim Hopkins (hoppy) produces some.
So, now we have several possibilities.
The male you didn't think mated, may have.
The female has been het amel all along and just happened not to throw an amel until now (my actual choice)
Spontanious mutation, has happened, could have happened again.
or possibly very light, red-eyed ghost.
This will be a fun one.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

_____

well i highly doubt the other male got to her, i was watching the entire time, since i was introducing a 2 year old hybrid to her and never trying to breed a hybrid before i was very curious. the second i put him in her cage he flicked his tongue and shot straight up into the lid and starting smashing around trying to get out and i immediatly removed him to his own cage. their bodies never even touched. i highly doubt this possibility. but admit telekinetic sperm is a possibility.

i guess it is possible that she was amel all along but highly doubt it. murphy is a funny guy

ive never seen a ghost this light but that is the only logical explination i have, this ones eyes glow red.

a spontaneouse mutation is something that also popped in my head
as well as maybe some form of a co-dom or ultramel gene but i think i would have had something pop up before in previous clutches. the only variables this year are that this is her first double clutch, yes she was in a tank for no more than a minute or two(no bodily contact what so ever) i incubated at a lower temp and used perlite instead of verm. the later two have no bearing on this to my knowledge.
i will post shots up tonight or tomarrow and a comparison of her with a ghost(she didnt pop so im guessing a her)

thanks for the reply's and keep em coming
adam
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hybrid breeders association
0.0.17 baby corns
16 corn eggs-due aug 5th
5 leo eggs-due aug 1st
0.1. normal corn het hypo,anery
1.0. snow corn het hypo,anery,amel
1.0. amel corn unknown hets(4ft 8inch long)
1.0 sinacorn
1.1 kenyan sand boas
0.1 mbk
0.1 albino nelsons
0.2 normal leo geckos
1.0 blizzard leo gecko
0.0.1 3 lined mud turtle

here are some pics they should be self explainatory(sp)
the anery pictured is pretty light but all of my aneries this year are pretty light.
also the ghost and anery have shed they are from the first clutch the snow? has not shed.

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hybrid breeders association
0.0.17 baby corns
16 corn eggs-due aug 5th
5 leo eggs-due aug 1st
0.1. normal corn het hypo,anery
1.0. snow corn het hypo,anery,amel
1.0. amel corn unknown hets(4ft 8inch long)
1.0 sinacorn
1.1 kenyan sand boas
0.1 mbk
0.1 albino nelsons
0.2 normal leo geckos
1.0 blizzard leo gecko
0.0.1 3 lined mud turtle

here is a better pic of the ghost. im not sure why it looks so dark, maybe the white background?
also the ghost is a keeper i might name him alphabet(can ya see it,HI)

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hybrid breeders association
0.0.17 baby corns
16 corn eggs-due aug 5th
5 leo eggs-due aug 1st
0.1. normal corn het hypo,anery
1.0. snow corn het hypo,anery,amel
1.0. amel corn unknown hets(4ft 8inch long)
1.0 sinacorn
1.1 kenyan sand boas
0.1 mbk
0.1 albino nelsons
0.2 normal leo geckos
1.0 blizzard leo gecko
0.0.1 3 lined mud turtle

That first pic looks like it says "Hi" on his back
Maybe HIJ if your pushing it.
The lighter one just looks like a lighter ghost. Could it be a hypo ghost?
I am not a genetics person, but definitely does not look amel or snow to me
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****Misty****

http://www.sneakyserpents.com/

"Yesterday was the deadline for all complaints"

Not counting Hatchlings, this is what I have.........

1.1.2 bearded dragons
9.18.0 corn snakes
1.1.0 jungle corns
1.2.6 California King
1.0.0 Mexican Black king
0.1.0 Blotched (variable) king
0.1.0 Lavender Brooksi king
1.0.0 Sinaloan milk snake
0.1.0 Tri-Hybrid milk snake
0.1.0 rat snake
1.1.0 Arizona mountain king
1.1.0 Congo African Grey Parrots
0.1.0 German Shepherd (hybrid) dog

>>That first pic looks like it says "Hi" on his back
>>Maybe HIJ if your pushing it.
>>The lighter one just looks like a lighter ghost. Could it be a hypo ghost?
>>I am not a genetics person, but definitely does not look amel or snow to me
>>-----
>>****Misty****
>>

Hey Misty,
A ghost is a hypomelanistic anery.
And I agree, the snake looks like a ghost to me.
The other one looks about as anery as an anery can get.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

_____

That lighter snake is a ghost, not an amel or a snow. The darker one may just be a lighter version of an anery A too.
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Darin Chappell
Hillbilly Herps
PO Box 254
Rogersville, MO 65742

actually i asked this same question on another forum and we decided that the lighter one was an extremely light ghost. i had comparison shots of her next to an anerya and a ghost but with the flash it made the anery lighter and the ghost darker. someday ill figure out how to take good pictures. their is one picture of the ghost by itself(the one with "HI" on its back) that is the same ghost that i used to compare the light ghost too.
adam
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hybrid breeders association
0.0.17 baby corns
16 corn eggs-due aug 5th
5 leo eggs-due aug 1st
0.1. normal corn het hypo,anery
1.0. snow corn het hypo,anery,amel
1.0. amel corn unknown hets(4ft 8inch long)
1.0 sinacorn
1.1 kenyan sand boas
0.1 mbk
0.1 albino nelsons
0.2 normal leo geckos
1.0 blizzard leo gecko
0.0.1 3 lined mud turtle

It's hard to tell the difference between some light aneries and some darker ghosts, and it is nearly impossible to tell them apart from pics online, just because in the differences in moniters alone. So, I can't disagree with what you see with your own eyes on that score.

But...I'm certain the lightest animal you've shown is neither an amel nor a snow. It's a very light ghost, and may have another genetic mutation playing around in there, but not amel.
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Darin Chappell
Hillbilly Herps
PO Box 254
Rogersville, MO 65742

thanks for the replies, im certain now its a light ghost but none of my other ghost have ever had such ruby eyes and that is what threw me off and how light it is. its definetly a keeper
adam
-----
hybrid breeders association
0.0.17 baby corns
16 corn eggs-due aug 5th
5 leo eggs-due aug 1st
0.1. normal corn het hypo,anery
1.0. snow corn het hypo,anery,amel
1.0. amel corn unknown hets(4ft 8inch long)
1.0 sinacorn
1.1 kenyan sand boas
0.1 mbk
0.1 albino nelsons
0.2 normal leo geckos
1.0 blizzard leo gecko
0.0.1 3 lined mud turtle