Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have heard that the rattlers of the genus Sistrurus are now all Crotalus, is this true? I heard also their venom are much weaker than the others, so I would like to know about it...any cases of bites etc
Thanks a lot

If the taxonomy changed it is news to me... As far as the venom goes, they're still fairly hot, they just don't have the yield like the larger Crotalus do. From speaking to individuals that I know who have recieved envenomations from Sisturus, they tend to be painful bites, sometimes with swelling ranging from the site of the bite all the way across to oppisite limbs.

In all the cases is the antivenom needed?
thanks again

Antivenom wasn't given in the particular bites that I know of, but that doesn't mean that the next one won't need it.

Well, immediate administration of antivenin will counteract the venom and help prevent tissue destruction and scarring. A non-fatal bite from a Massasauga could still result in tissue loss and scars.

My personal opinion:

I think it's foolish not to call 911 after a Pig bite to seek treatment. Nobody can tell how a viperid bite with symptoms will progress. The longer you wait the greater the chance of having a serious problem develop.

Al

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Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.

I keep emergency contact numbers nearby and make a point to *NOT* call 911. Whenever a 911 call is made police are automatically involved and notified. Any information that they find out they can talk about freely. If a patient transport service or something like that leaks out medical information it is a different story (my understanding of the situation anyway, I might be wrong).

I've always equated a 911 call to asking for bad publicity.

BTW, nice meeting you down in San Antonio, and I really enjoyed the Ermia photos you posted.

....when did you hear this,from what source?
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"with head raised regally,and gazing at me with lidless eyes,he seemed to question with flicks of his long forked tongue my right to trespass on his territory" Carl Kauffeld

I just heard from a friend today...

Your friend wouldn't be the first to be confused by the fact that the "true" rattlesnakes (genus Crotalus) and the pigmies/massasaugas (genus Sistrurus) are both part of the subfamily Crotalinae. Not new, just a subfamily name that's so similar to the genus and so seldom mentioned that it throws people off when they see it.

Or he could have heard it from someone who was thusly befuddled...

Jerry Walls makes that statement in his TFH book on "Rattlesnakes"!
But he does not support the comment with any data or research. After reading some of his publishings it didn't surprise me.
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Tim Cole
www.Designeratrox.com/
www.AustinReptileService.net
www.AustinReptileExpo.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<
Conservation through Education

Campbell and Lamar (2004) reassigned only the Mexican pigmy rattlesnake (formerly Sistrurus ravus) to Crotalus ravus. If I remember correctly, they sited skull morphology as well as mDNA studies as their primary source of evidence for the reclassification. In other words, they found that ravus was genetically a closer relative to members of Crotalus than other members of Sistrurus.

They published this in their landmark tome, "Venomous Reptiles of the Western Hemisphere".

In 2004 Campbell and Lamar reassigned the Mexican Pigmy Rattlesnake (Sistrurus ravus) as being Crotalus ravus, so we now have Crotalus ravus ravus, Crotalus ravis brunneus, and Crotalus ravus exiguus. To the best of my knowledge none of the U.S. forms of Sistrurus have been reassigned as being Crotalus.

It is fairly easy to keep up with the taxonomic changes and proposed changes of U.S. species through the Center for North American Herpetology (CNAH) web site, but staying abreast of the taxonomic changes in Mexican, Central and South American forms can be a headache at times.
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Gerald Keown
The Venomous Snakes of Texas

A few years ago Sisturus ravus (Mexican Pygmy) was moved to Crotalus. That is the only official change to the taxonomy. However, in Jerry Wall's book on Rattlesnake he did assign all of the Sisturus snakes as Crotalus, no reasoning was given however.

Sistrurus...man I cannot spel english let alone latin

I personaly havent heard anything about a taxonomic change in Sistrurus but I would highly doubt it. Just basing my next statement on visual obserbvations the head of the two genus alone are much different in shape and compartrive size. Pigs have a head more along the lines of a copperhead, slender compared to Crotalus. Now look a Crotalus lepidus, another smallish rattler that is already in Crotalus. Compare a lepidus head to that of an atrox. Both are very robust, almost roundish.

I know that is by no means a scientific finding nor does it realy hold any warrent but I just look at pygmies and see somthing different then typical crotalus.

My general thinking is that Sistrurus is kinda a missing link between Agkistrodon, Bothrops, bothrechis etc and Crotalus. Im by no means saying Sistrurus is closely related to Agkistrodon by any means. I just dont think they could ever be considered in Crotalus based on the visual differences alone.

I would love to hear what DNA analysis have to say about any connection. Kind of surpised a study hasnt already been published or that I havent come across said study yet

As for venom, they are hot, hot, hot! All species of Sistrurus have extreamly potent venom drop for drop. The yeild are just very small in comparison.

Generaly they arte not a note worthy snake of medical importance because of the low yeild but the reaction people have had, as was said with swelling across the body to unbitten limbs etc you can imagine what would happen if they were the size of atrox or horridus O.O

My 2 cents

According to the EMBL datatbase we still have 3 Sisturus species
I trust EMBL because although they sometimes change something when an academic publishes on it (i.e. when someone tried to put Acrantophis and Sanzinia into Boa genus) they will just as rapidly change it back if it proves unfounded.