Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi,

I have had two WC rough green snakes for about 3 months, the first week we had them I saw the smaller one feed on a cricket, and again a few weeks later.. The larger one had problems shedding and I had to bathe it, I was unable to wipe the skin from the 3 or 4 inches behid its head as it was quite stressed....it actually tried biting me several times when I reached this point. When he did get his teeth in he had a good chew rather than bite and release, he definitely has all 4 teeth, as per the puncture marks.

The skin has still not come off behind his head and the dry patch now looks quite creased and wrinkly sometimes. Since the first two weeks we have not seen either feed, though I dont think this means they are not eating at all. They are not particularly shy, they bask all day and we regularly remove faeces from the viv, maybe two a week which is white and brown. Their food is supplemented with multi vits, and calcuim, we feed crickets and very small locust, but because of the size of the viv and the amount of foliage in there its hard to keep an eye on the crix left in the viv. I have also offered small wax worms but they are not interested in them (strangely my collared lizards dont eat them either).

Also, they are misted twice a day, and temps are high 70's in the day, dropping to 72 at night. They have only ever been handled the day I tried to help with the shedding and a few days ago when they both escaped, I found them both together under the radiator and put them straight back in the viv, again "scabby" tried to bite. In places they both have dark and bright blue marks between the scales as though their skin has stretched, and although they are not FAT they are slimmer at the neck than the mid region, I dont know if this is normal or not. We live in the UK so they hve been shipped from overseas. Should I be concerned with the dead skin stil being attached? His eyes are definitely ok, and I was careful to remove the skin from the tail so as to prevent it from tightening.

There is lots of info out there on Rough Green's and the problem is that there are differing opinions on temps, humidity and size of food. I dont know who to listen to, as most of it is a general care sheet as opposed to someone who keeps them successfully.

Can anyone help out?

Thanks,
Kelly

I have had other snakes with shedding problems. I take about 2-3 paper towels, wet them, put them in a container that the snake can breath, and put a small rock in there with it, if there's enough room. Make sure the water is not too warm. I would leave it in there for a few hours with the container in the cage. That should work, it has worked for me everytime. Derek

Thanks for your advice, I'll try that later.

Any more advice re temps and size of food etc? The viv is 3ft tall by 1.5 x 1.5 feet. Bark substrate and a water bowl, lots of hides and basking places, and sphagnum moss in one half of the bottom thats kept moist as well as the daily misting

The suggestion about the towels is good and should work.

For food, you might try offering some soft-bodied insects, such as moth or butterfly larva, fly maggots, and spiders.

It sounds like the big guy is stressed-out. Greens are not generally known as biters - but, individual temperments do vary. I have a Dessert King, normally known for their laid-back personality, that I have named "Psycho" - you can imagine why!

Give him time to settle in and avoid handling unnecessarily. You might think about what could cause stress and try to modify those conditions. Things like view blockers, larger enclosure, climbing oppurtunities, correct photoperiod and humidity, people traffic, vibration, and controling curious furry pets, etc.

Good luck with your greenies.

John D
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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"

I do keep them in the kitchen as there is not very often anyone in there, we have no children, and no furry pets except the red knee, and nobody is home between 0730 and 1830.

Will go through your list of recommendations and apply whichever I can,

Thanks again
Kelly

I really appreciate your advice, but I forgot to ask what "photoperiod" means. Is this daily exposure to UV?

"...what "photoperiod" means."

Sorry about the bio-jargon

Photo = light, period = time.

"Is this daily exposure to UV?"

Not just UV but light in general - in effect, the day/night cycle.

After reading your follow-up, it sounds like you have a good handle on the enclosure set-up. My snakes should have it so good!

You might reconsider the kitchen. Snakes have acute chemosensory (smell, taste, vomaronasal) abilities. They are extreamly sensetive to odors of all kinds. It is possible that the odors of cooking, various foods, and the many cleaning products used in kitchens may be a stressing factor.

OTOH, moving the enclosure is another potential source of stress. Its a balancing act, and you are the one who gets to work the scales! In a lot of cases, the best thing for stress is time.

Good luck with your Greenies - They are beautiful critters.
How about posting a pic? Would like to see your set-up.

Best Regards,

John D

Here's a pic of Psycho...

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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"

I would never have know he was a King Snake though!

I used to have a California King, she was the most placid, beautiful, curious and interesting snake I ever knew, but she didn't look much like yours, I guess it's dependent on the species. They do have different temperaments, I guess you could compare them to cats. We had a grumpy cat called Oliver who would swipe you if you even breathed in his direction. His counterpart and partner in crime was Chloe who is the fussiest, most talkative creature, she is always happy, purring and climbing all over anyone that will allow.

Strange creatures, but I'm pleased you agree my setup is OK. I'll take some pics and post them...

BTW, I have been brushing scabby with cotton ear swabs dipped in warm water for a few days whilst he is basking, and he doesn't seem to mind or move away. He pushes his body toward the pressure from the swab, I'm not sure why though. When he's had enough he hides away.

Kingsnakes are all one species "Lampropeltus getulus ssp." the California, Dessert, Speckled, Florida, Eastern, and others are all subspecies, except for the Scarlet Kingsnake, which is actually a variety of Milsnake (L. trianglum). There are many variations on the theme, and all are fascinating. Visit the Kingsnake Forum to see lots of good examples.

Sounds like Scabby wants that skin gone. If you can get that skin good and wet with the Q-Tip, then try using something with some roughness to it to do the same thing. Try maybe a budgie perch with or without sandpaper, or a twig with bark. All you need to do is get that old skin started and it should peel right off. You might even try gently rubbing it off with your finger (moistened).

Cheers!

John D.
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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"