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Ecentric or irresponsible

jedinflorida Aug 02, 2006 09:12 PM

Hi Folks,

I was hoping for some advice from the pro's.My wife and I have a 4-year old son and are expecting our second in November...If you here someone crying himself to sleep at night it would be me :>. Anyway. "The Boy," as we affectionately call him loves animals, especially reptiles..Guess he won't have his first date til he is in his 20's like his old man..KIDDING. Anyway here is my dilema..If I am going to purchase a reptile.. I like going big and exotic. I am well aware that some of the larger species of snakes and Monitors become agressive, and would require the appropriate caging. I am perfectly at ease if this Pet is merely to look at and enjoy, aware of the risks of siminella , and to allow a child to have the ability to handle such an exotic would be like giving them access to a loaded gun in the home. I have narrowed it down as follows...

Reticulate
Anaconda
Water Monitor

I guess my real question is, which of these specimens can be housed in an aquarium like enclosure the longest, before building a true exhibit in my Garage an/or Den?

I also am well aware of the responsibiltiy associated with keeping such a large animal, and that although here in central florida is home to the largest preserved wetlands, would never be careless enough to let it go.

I Could really use some advise, and because I have yet to learn how to Navigate this site would you be so kind to also email me at jed_hohlfeld1562@yahoo.com

Thank you in advance,

Jed

Replies (9)

mavericksdad Aug 02, 2006 09:30 PM

....get a female boa constrictor,because this is big enough...
...its also the least likely to harm you or your child...

Rivets55 Aug 03, 2006 03:48 AM

Jed, Jed, Jed...

Where to start?

"My wife and I have a 4-year old son and are expecting our second in November"
Congratulations - raise your kids and quit whining. There are a lot of us who can't have and may never have kids. I compensate by keeping cats and snakes.

"...some of the larger species of snakes and Monitors become aggressive"
DUH!
No, really - they can and sometimes do. Mind you this is not a put-down of any snakes or their keepers. All snakes, lizards, and reptiles are wild animals. They can be habituated to human contact, never tamed. The creatures you mention are large, carnivorous, predators. Both snakes are specialists in taking large mammalian prey - a 10 lb baby or 75 lb child is right in the size range they like. The monitor is a generalist that will eat anything it can catch and kill.

"... to allow a child to have the ability to handle such an exotic would be like giving them access to a loaded gun in the home."
Worse, actually. Guns are inanimate objects - they can't do anything by themselves. Guns don't escape, get hungry, or constrict and eat people. Predatory reptiles can and do injure and kill people - especially children and babies.

Every year there are stories about tragedies involving people and large constrictors. In most cases, the snakes are allowed to run loose, or get loose, mistake the person for prey, and do what comes naturally. This almost never ends well for either party. Many keepers have been overpowered and in several cases, assistants had to kill the animal to save the persons life. No one should ever try to handle any of these animals unassisted. A simple mistake can quickly escalate into a life-or-death situation.

Your choices...

Reticulated Python - It is very well documented that retics kill and eat humans. They grow fast - easily reaching 10 ft within a couple of years. A 10 ft retic is strong - very strong, and hungry.

Anaconda - Human deaths and ingestion are recorded in the literature. This is a difficult snake to keep in captivity, even for experts. Like the retic, it will quickly outgrow any practical aquarium, and become more than one person can safely handle. It is also the largest, and most powerful snake on the planet. In the wild they capture, kill, and eat 150 kg capybaras. (Think sewer rat from hell.)

Water Monitor - One of the largest and most difficult monitors to deal with, second only to the Komodo in potential danger to humans.

"... would never be careless enough to let it go."
Uh-huh. Yeah. Sure. Every few weeks there's a story in the papers about so-and-so's retic, bumese, boa, or rock that got loose and had to be recaptured by the cops, fireman, etc. Or worse, that was killed by someone.

KNOW THIS - an enclosure can be made escape-proof, but it CAN NOT be made idiot proof. Probably 80% of escapes happen because the keeper simply forgot to secure the door. All snakes are escape artists extraordinaire - if there is a way out, they will find it, and you wont know it until its too late. Finally, no enclosure can be made tamper proof - what kind of stuff did you get into at 4 years old? At 6? At 8? In 4 years, that 2 ft baby retic will be pushing 12 ft - how big will your kids be?

"I Could really use some advise..."
Ok, here goes...

1. Please, DO NOT keep a large constrictor or monitor in the same building as your children. It is a risk you have no right to assume.

2. If you really want a snake, think native, nonvenomous, and reasonably sized for a child to handle. After all you are getting it for the boy aren't you? What's the point of getting a snake for a boy if he won't be able to handle it?

3. Kings, Corns, Rats, Bulls, Balls, all come in many beautiful and exotic varieties, and all are no threat to you or your family.

4. If you simply must have something like a big retic, have a separate building for it - not the garage, not the basement, not anywhere near your children. Be prepared. These animals are not easy or cheap to keep, can live 20 years, and zoos just aren't interested in taking them off your hands when they hit 20 ft, 225 lbs, and want a 30 lb pig every month. Oh, BTW, what goes in, must come out. Hope you don't mind really, really big poop.

5. The things that can happen when giant snakes and monitors are kept in homes with babies and children are the stuff of nightmares. This just the kind of thing you see on CNN and in the National Enquirer. All of us, amateur and professional alike, are smeared by the same tar brush when one stupid mistake occurs.

Oh, and
6. Never post your email on the web, unless you really like spam.

THINK, THINK, THINK!

JPD
-----
I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"

althea Aug 03, 2006 10:21 PM

np

mavericksdad Aug 03, 2006 11:36 PM

...he knew full well what kind of answer he was going to get.A joke maybe?...Retics,Burms,Afrocks,Water Monitors,Niles,Boas all big capable predators as you have said,but so is your neighbors dog/cat,and quite frankly I think are more dangerous,because while most snake owners (at least i hope)would never leave their child unattended around big reptiles,most dog/cat owners would think nothing of leaving their child with the family dog/cat,which are responsible for more attacks on anybody children and adults every year than any of the said "wild predators"(at least here in US),most pet python related deaths involved someone involved in the handling and feeding of them,I however have never heard of a "pet" water monitor or boa evr killing their owner(not 100% on the monitor,but its a fact for boas)...ever.ok enough of that...what i mean is people with kids can keep big reptiles as long as they take the necassary precautions (i grew up in a house with 500 snakes many of them over 9' and several were venomous)and was never hurt,constrcted,or bit (until later when i was allowed to have my own snakes lol),but i was mauled by the neighbors "freindly" dog...im sorry im tired and i love my pets and will defend them till the end...good night.

Rivets55 Aug 05, 2006 01:03 AM

Mavericksdad -

Wow, sounds like you had a cool place to grow up! To bad we weren't in the same neighborhood! That is one sweet boa.

I agree with you completely about dogs and cats, moreso dogs. Cats can bite and scratch, but they don't hunt in packs, and they just don't have the bite strenght to do serious harm. Dogs on the other hand, kill and maul a lot of people every year. Pit Bulls and Chows seem to get most of the noteriety for this, but this is unfair.

It comes down to the same thing my post was trying to address - its not the animals fault. They are doing what comes naturally. It is the responsibility of the owner to maintain proper control of their pet, be it cat, dog, python, or goldfish. By the same token, if an owner is irresponsible, they are leagally at fault if their pet harms someone.

I've had my own run-ins with vicious dogs, and have encountered some psychotic cats. Nothing annoys me more than a dog owner who thinks its cute when their Fido sticks his slavering snout somewhere that it shouldn't go, barks constantly, or bites my achilles tendon.

I am not slaming dogs, cats, pythons, monitors, or any other pet animal. However, I am vehemently opposed to unqualified individuals who keep large, potentially dangerous pets, particularly around children. Again, that goes for dogs, retics, pigs, crocs, or whatever. My hope was that Jed would read my post and at least stop and think before he jumped in the deep end of the pool. If he wants to take risks on himself that's one thing - but to potentially put his familly at risk is another. He is a father, and he must be responsible.

BTW, I heard somewhere that the domestic animal that kills more people than any other is the Pig. Anybody know if this is true?

Best Regards,

John D
-----
I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"

FunkyRes Aug 05, 2006 03:38 AM

When I was 20 - I went star watching for my astronomy class at the spot I always went - but after recording my observations, I did a little exploring (in the dark, yeah, pretty stupid) and ended up coming down off of a hill onto private property, at about 2 in the morning.

Suddenly I was surrounded by at least six rottweilers which made a perfect circle around me. Then a light came on in a house I didn't even know was there, and a woman came out on a balkany and asked me what the hell I was doing. I told her. Then she said "next time, I won't call off the dogs" and she called them off - and they instantly left.

While on the one hand, I was more scared than I had ever been - it amazed me how well those dogs were trained. Had they not been so well trained, I just might have died that night.
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3.0 WC; 0.2 CB L. getula californiae
0.1 WC; 10 eggs (7/11) Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata

mavericksdad Aug 05, 2006 04:30 AM

...thats the chances of an animal biting you...either youll get bitten or you wont,thats why when i take my boas and ratsnake,and monitors out in public (only at the local petstores around here in houston were we are welcome guests,people are only allowed to touch them with the head facing away were there is no chance of them biting anyone but me,i let people know im coming i dont just sneak up on people and i ::sometimes:: let someone hold my boa maverick,and he has helped many people get over their fear of snakes. Dogs can be awesome pets i remember a german shepard my dad had that was one of my best freinds,but they can be dangerous...as i found out when i was 4 when i was attacked by the neighbors dog and got 22 stitches in my face(i still have the scars)and became so araid of dogs my dad had to get rid of him but thats when my dad who had a phd. in biology from the university of miami,gave me my first snake...a yearling cb yellow ratsnake and taught me how to feed them and how to discourage them from biting(just letting them bite you and not moving or jerking away lol..ummm....dont try this at home lol....its only for very young snakes!)well i9 had him for 15 years and he only bit me once right on the cheek it stung it burned and it bled...but it healed quickly and there was no scaring...no stitches and i became a snake lover at age 4 found out that the barn i wasent allowed to go into and was locked unless an adult was around held hundreds of snakes and he gave me my choice of pet a baby yellow or a baby corn...i chose the yellow one...well i picked him because i thought he looked cool with all those brown spots...almost like a tiny little boa i was kinda dissapointed when he turned yellow!lol...well i just got off work (saving up for a quality peruvian redtail boa preferably a male)had to clean the big monitors cage gave him a shower(he loves it)dried him off and put him back in his enclosure and fed him a thawed small rat),checked on my boas the male just fed yesterday and the females in shed,checked on my amazon tree boa feisty but eats like a champ!,checked on my girlfriends ball python and pair of emorys rats,and the yellow x everglades ratsnake i gave her made sure she watered them and shes getting really good at helping me with cage cleaning and handling the animals.then i fed the "turtle"...his name is dweezil and yes he does know his name and will come when you call him and he will do "tricks" for crickets(he "dances"...its the funniest thing)... hes the first redear slider ive ever owned and now im hooked..well getting sleepy goood night...gotta walk the dog before i go to bed (thats right i got over my fear too....)

FunkyRes Aug 04, 2006 02:14 AM

When I was about 12, mom and dad bought me two burmese pythons.
When I was 17 - it was time for me to go to college.

Mom and dad wanted to get foster children, and the county (rightfully) would not allow it with two over 12 foot snakes in the house. I could not take them to college with me either.

My colubrids - it was relatively easy to find homes for all of them. It was incredibly difficult for me to find anyone to take the pythons, even with the caging, who was able to care for them.

I will never own such a large species of snake again. I love to visit such large snakes at zoos and the like, but even though I could have one now - if something came up and I had to move to a place where I could not keep them, what would I do?

This was in 1989 that I had to find homes for them. It's even harder now to find homes for them.

Do not get a large snake unless you are a zoo. Really.

I would suggest buying a pair of baby king snakes or bull snakes.
They do not get too big, they usually tame up fairly nicely, and they are relatively easy to find homes for if something comes up and you can no longer keep them.
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3.0 WC; 0.2 CB L. getula californiae
0.1 WC; 10 eggs (7/11) Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata

jarrodrandel Aug 14, 2006 06:38 PM

Lol... that response took some serious effort.

Seriously dood. Get an Arizona Mtn Kingsnake. They get 3 feet long, eat a mouse or two every other week and are about as friendly as your neighborhood milkman - and you can keep multiple snakes in the same enclosure. They are vibrantly colorful and very easy to take care of.

Think about it... they even make small poop too. No 30 lb pigs.

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