Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I just had a clutch of hypo tangerine Hondurans born and I had a few questions that some of you more experienced Honduran fans might be able to answer:

1. They just hatched on 7/28 and 7/29 and I have not offered first meals yet. One of the babies has no pattern on the top half of its dorsal side and very faint thin bands on the bottom half. This baby is pooping some bright green colored stuff. Is this normal and just a cleaning out of the system so to speak? Or can it be a genetic problem since this animal is the only one with this extreme pattern reduction and the only one that is pooping like this? The parents are captive born, I bought them as babies, and they have had no abnormal pooping nor any illnesses.

2. What is the difference between a hypo with red eyes and a hypo with clearly visible pupils? Red tongues and black tongues?

3. Are tri-color hypos more valuable than bi-color?

4. Are vanishing pattern specimens more valuable than patterned ones?

5. What are the going prices for hypo tangerine hondos at this time? I don't see many ads for them. Why is that? Are they very popular and sell quickly or are people just not producing them anymore?

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Alex

Hey Alex,

Congratulations on your new hatching experience. I still remember that first time experience years ago and I'm sure you are ecstatic at this moment.

Let me answer your questions then.

For question # 1, this pooping of bright green colored stuff has never happened to me before. In fact, in my experience, they only start pooping after they had their first meal. So if I were you, I would definitely keep that hatchling away from the other siblings. It also could be that he might be underdeveloped or hatched prematurely that he is having a hard time dealing with the environment right now. Just before hatching, the babies absorbed the yolk in their bellies to help them get by the first week or so without eating. The yolk is absorbed into their midsection where you can sometimes see that there is still some short dried up umbilical chord hanging (which will soon detach and go away. The yolk is not absorbed though the rectal area...so the rectal area should be dry...so again, I suspect that your baby hatchling is not well. It may recover by itself or you may need to see a vet (but may be costly though)...but keep him away from the others and wash your hands after you handle him and before you handle other snakes.

For # 2 question ... a hypo with ruby red eyes, with bands that are greenish gray (rather than black) and completely ZERO black or dark tippings is considered an extreme hypo. Mike Falcon, Mike Alvarez, Terry Dunham, and Shannon Brown are some of the first ones that produced the extreme hypos and they are considered far more superior than ordinary hypos. I'll attach a pic of my extreme hypo I got from Mike Falcon last year. The pic was taken a year ago but you can see how it can be different from an ordinary hypo.

Also, the very first ghost extreme was produced last year by Mike Falcon and is a sight to behold. Shannon Brown has a gorgeous tricolor hypo extreme that is out of this world.

For Question # 3, the tricolor hypos are generally more valuable than bi-colors or tangerine hypos...simply because the tricolor hypos seem to be harder to produce and a lot prettier to look at.

For Question # 4, the vanishing patterns are more valuable than the patterned ones simply because they are genetically harder to come by plus they look cleaner.

For Question # 5, normal hypo tangerines are not that expensive these days anymore. The good news is they are quick to sell. I'm sold out on all my hypo hatchlings this year and sold the last one just a few days ago. I did not even have to advertise here. Some breeders are just about to get their eggs hatched so I suspect that you'll see more advertised in the weeks to follow. Well known breeders focus their attention more on breeding extreme hypos, patternless hypos, ghost extremes, patternless albinos, knockout tricolor hypos, ghosts and snows. Of course, when trying to produce these high end ones, you will still get ordinary hypos and double hets...so the latter ones are cheaper and yet, easier to see because more people can afford them, especially for those who are just discovering the beauty of honduran milksnake morphs.

Hope this helps a bit.

Ray

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RAY
www.happysnakes.com

Thanks Ray for the congratulations and thanks for your input. I really appreciate the information and your willingness to share it. I had posted the same questions about 4 days ago on another site and not one person responded.

Your extreme hypo is nothing short of spectacular, what a beautiful specimen! Thanks for sharing that picture and the one of the tricolor(which is awesome as well).

Your theory about the premature birth makes sense to me. The baby in question is a bit smaller than the others and the green poop only happened for the first couple days and not again since. I will snap some pics and post them tonight or tomorrow.

What price range would you expect tricolor hypos, bicolor hypos, and extreme hypos to fall in for this season?

Once again thanks for your help.

Alex

I just recently had some GBK eggs hatch, and some of their waste was a little green. I wouldn't worry about it. There was a couple that were a little smaller also. They were the last 2 to hatch, and one of them came out of a rotting egg.I guess they would be considered runts. Derek

Thanks Derek for your input as well.

Alex

You're welcome Alex.

I think your goal is to have that hatchling eat his first meal within the next couple of days. There are several ways of trying to achieve this. One is make sure that the prey is a new born hatchling. You can get a live one...new born because it has to be small enough for him not to be afraid of. If the wiggling of the pinky turns him off or makes him stay aways from it, try a second approach...and that is a thawed new born pinky. Submerge that thawed pinky in warm water and then wipe it. The warmth should attract him. If not, try to pierce using a needle through its skull so that a little brain smell does the trick of enticing him.

As far as pricing goes, why don't you email me directly at snakes_sfguy@yahoo.com and I'd be happy to give you my input on the hypo pricing.

Thanks,

Ray

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RAY
www.happysnakes.com

Okay Ray, here are a couple of pics of the animal in question. By what you described earlier, this qualifies as an extreme hypo?

On another note, much to my surprise, when I got home from dinner this evening I discovered that my female double clutched. I think I have 6 viable eggs, the 7th looks kind of iffy. I had noticed her crawling around restlessly a few days ago so I decided to put her nest box back in her cage just in case. She did not lay overnight or even the following day so I thought that maybe it was just my wishful thinking.

The first clutch I had, I lost 2 out of the nine eggs, I think due to too much humidity. How crucial is it to have all the eggs covered in vermiculite or pearlite? Once again she laid the eggs kind of in a clumpy mountain and I could not separate the eggs for fear of ripping them open by accident. If I half way cover the eggs up to the top of the "mountain" the bottom eggs will be totally covered. What would you suggest? Is it best to leave the eggs stuck together and half way cover only the bottom eggs and leave the top ones with nothing?

Alex

Hey Alex,

From those pictures, it looks to me like an extreme vanishing hypo...I can't for sure tell with the eyes due to lighting but if it got solid ruby red eyes...then that's a really awesome animal (if i were you, i'd keep it). Sometimes, "runts" turn out to be awesome breeders when they to be adults...it just needs some TLC.

On your question about a clump/mountain of eggs, just cover eggs on the first layer. The ones on the higher level, get some peat moss or spanish moss (buy it at a garden store that is sealed and don't get it in the wild as you might pick up some bacteria) and partially cover around the eggs not covered by the permiculite...also, just make sure that the lower eggs are not totally covered so air can circulate. I've had some clumps laid and when that happens, you should never attempt to separate if they cannot be separated...if you do, you will for sure rip them apart.

Anyhow, I can't believe that on your first attempt to breed, you got an extreme hypo...what are his parents? and is he the only extreme hypo?

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RAY
www.happysnakes.com

Once again Ray, thank you for your good and timely info. The baby does have the ruby red eyes, I guess it is just beginners luck.

The parents are both 2003 models which I paired up for the first time this year. I had not tried breeding them prior. The male is a bi-color hypo that I picked up from Pasco Paul at a Tampa show and the female is a tri-color hypo that I bought from Hanley's Herps at Daytona. I will see if I can snap some good pics of "mom & dad" and post them up shortly.

And thanks for your honesty in advising me to keep this baby, I had already planned to hold it back along with one or two others. I liked it for the solid orange on the top half of its body. And if luck would have it, maybe I will find another extreme in the second clutch although I am thrilled enough just to have produced 7 healthy babies already my first time out.( can't get too greedy you know!)

Is it too early to know if the eggs are viable? I have seen the term "candeling" used when dealing with eggs. Should I "candle" at this time and if so, how do you candle?

Alex

And, yes it is the only extreme hypo out of the first clutch.

Alex

Man, are you lucky! That is a beautiful hondo! Congrats!

I have some baby tangerine hypos that I picked up this year. I can't wait until they are old enough to breed.

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1.4.0 Bearded Dragons (Frodo, Red Sonya, Galadriel, Arwen, Lakis)
1.1.0 Nosy Be Panther Chameleons (Fred and Wilma)
1.1.0 Peacock Day Gecko
0.1.0 Gold Dust Day Gecko
0.1.0 Columbian Red-Tail Boa (Bilbo)
0.1.0 Ball Python (Daisy)
0.1.0 California King Snake (Cali)
2.1.0 Honduran Milk Snakes
0.0.3 Fire Belly Toads
0.1.0 Fat Cat (Mollie)
1.0.0 Mini Pinscher x Chihuahua (Pepper)

Thanks David, and that is a pretty snake you got there as well.

Alex

if i were you i would not sell that animal. i would however take it and have it sexed, if you are lucky it will be a male.
if it is a male i would keep all the females regardless of what they look like, and then breed it to all its sisters and see what pops out. if its a female i would breed it back to dad.
if you feel confident enough you can pop it to see if its a male here is a link to a video on how to pop.
adam
http://www.cornutopia.com/Corn Utopia on the Web/- Sexing corn snakes - intro to vid clips.htm

hope this helps
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hybrid breeders association
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2 leo eggs-due sept
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1.0 sinacorn
1.1 kenyan sand boas
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0.1 albino nelsons
0.2 normal leo geckos
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0.0.1 3 lined mud turtle