Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi All,

I have had a group of eastern box turtles housed outside. This group is 3 males 9 females. I can not find 3 of my females. Here in the midwest we have been having 90 weather the last week which is much warmer then normal. The pen is watered daily as well to keep in moist.

The pen for the first 4 years was 12x14 feet. I constructed it from wood. I used a 2x12 underground then two 2x10s above ground ontop of each other. I then have a 5/4 deck board along the top forming a lip to the inside of the pen....to prevent climbing. I then last year expanded the pen, it is now roughly 14x28 feet long as I wanted to give them more room. Everything has been great turtles have been hibernated every winter in a sunroom for more controlled conditions and closer monitoring.

Yesterday I was doing my check up on all the turtles and could not find three of my girls. No signs of digging out under the pen...would have had to go down under the 2x12 then out. I am not sure if they are dug down far for cooling reasons. After 4 hours of looking no signs. The 9 others were not dug down at all and are doing great.

My questions are, do boxies dig down deep in real hot weather? Do hawks/eagles prey on boxies? This pen is right by the house and never considered these threats as I rarely see them around. I do not suspect theivery by a person as very few people know they are there. I have an electric fence going around the top lip of the pen to prevent dogs and others from wanting to get near. The pen does not have a full top and I have had zero issues with predation/injury in the past.

Any ideas/suggestions of what could be the cause? Do you guys with large pens have full tops? Do you have bottoms turtles can not dig out of? I thought 12" below ground would be sufficient and I do not see any signs of them digging out of the pen. Two of my girls that are missing are a couple of my more shy turtles. If somebody were to steal turtles this I would suspect be two of the harder to find turtles.

I am quite worried and want to number one find them, if they are gone prevent anything from occuring to the others.

Any advice/suggestions are appreciated!

I am in oklahoma, where we've been having 100 degree temps for several weeks and I have some that have been burying themselves although I can usually find them if I dig around suspected hiding spots. I have one male ornate that I haven't seen for a week but knowing him, I am pretty confident that he's just found a good spot to stay cool.

Is your soil loose enough where they could dig down and it not be that noticable?

Supposedly Hawks sometimes prey on turtles, but I wouldn't think that would be that likely with adults, especially with
three missing. In five years I've had one three toed completely dissapear, never to be seen again. But its possible she found a way out.

We do have hawks, but its hard for me to think that turtles would be high on their list with squirrels, rabbits and other birds around. I would also think it might be hard for a hawk to carry off a larger turtle.

Hi,

The soil in their pen is soft enough for them to bury in. I am hoping/figuring they are most likely buried down to not be disturbed.

From what I described with my pen do you have any recommendations for it? Like I said the sides go below ground about a foot and are above around about 20" with a 3" or so lip to the inside.

Thanks!

Try turning on the sprinkler to a soft rain in the evening and see if that encourages them to come out to look for worms and such. They just might reappear.

What are the sides of your pen made of.

If the sides are buried several inches
I wouldn't worry about them digging out.

Now, if they can climb the sides of the
pen, you need to have a lip to the inside
so they can't climb out.

You mentioned a lip, but I wasn't sure if
that was along the top.

I made my pen out of hardware cloth and after
I discovered that they could climb out, I had
to cut some long strips of hardware cloth about
a foot wide and sew it to the top of the pen
with wire.

I Would try turning on a sprinkler like someone else said. You might have to leave it on for a while to get them to come out. As for hawks and birds of prey they could be a threat if your enclosure is in a very open area. My guess is if your soil is very loose they probably dug under, probably just far enough to cover their shells. However, I will relate one story. My original enclosure did not have a roof over it. For 2.5 years I had no problems then however one morning I was horrified to find one of my yearling spotted turtles that I hatched outside its enclosure killed by a raccoon. When was the last time you saw the three females? where they there during to day then missing the next morning? .. or where did they disappear during the day? If the later is the case then they probably dug under the ground to hide. Good luck.

The sides of my pen are made from 2x10s and 2x12s (solid wood). There is about a 3" lip toward the inside at teh top. I do not think climbing out is too easy with one exception. I was looking at some of the plants and some have grown quite close to the sides...maybe (a small chance but still a chance at that) they used these to their advantange.

As for when I last saw them was about 4-5 days ago. In the past I have not gone through and dug all of them out everyday. I did this one to two times weekly depending on how their appetite and etc has been.

I will keep you guys posted, thank you for all the advice.

Scott

Hi Scott,

Your dilemma is truly a puzzling one.

You been given a tremendous amount of GREAT advice....

I'm sure by now you have watered your enclosure and looked thoroughly in your yard.

I was wondering if outside of your enclosure; your yard is fenced or enclosed in some way.

*Boxies can be masters at hiding. Consider placing used fruit crates / boxes upside down with an opening for boxies to enter in the difficult to access parts of your yard ( or just spread them out near the corners). Spray them down with water at dusk. If a boxie is still in the area; they would be active at pre-dawn and look for cooler hides as it gets warmer. They would find the crates hospitable retreats. You could check them daily.

*You still have to consider theft; and as such I' d recommend you take precautions with you remaining boxies. A locked down screened reinforced cover is one option.

*Another possibility is the wild card. Things that are are not readily apparent often in fact cause havoc in our lives. I know of unbelievable animal predation stories. Some cunning predators have learned how to avoid an electric wire and jump into and out of a fence, enclosure etc. They would seek the smallest and least movement in their prey ....or those not moving frequently as a sign of less aggressiveness and an easy target. While sitting in a canoe I watched unbelievably, coyotes carry off large painted turtles that ventured too close to shore.

In spite of the above we can always hope; and I do hope you find them safe.

Ric K.

Well, it sounds like your thought processes are all in order. You have identified some of the major reasons why a turtle might be missing. The problem is, it is nearly impossible for us to help you without at least seeing your setup. Even in pictures, it is difficult to gauge the height of the walls and the width of the lip on top. You have done a good job so far in your process of elimination.

I've seen a young turtle get snatched by a crow. Other than that, I've heard of some other horror stories with young turtles and birds. With adults, however, I've never heard of an incident in the US of a bird of prey capturing an adult turtle. Ooops, scratch that. I actually heard of Bald Eagles' nests being found lined with Eastern Mud turtle shells at a wilderness area near my house. It's unclear whether they captured them alive or scavenged them already dead. Birds are possible, but unlikely. Other predators are possible, but unlikely due to your electric fence. I'd say your biggest suspects are escape, theft, and burial to escape the heat.

You can make yourself nuts thinking of how it happened, but you should focus on what you can do about it. Search your yard...not just once but two to three times daily for several weeks. Look in areas of cover especially. Where would you seek cover if you were a box turtle? Put up signs in your neighborhood. That may help with the theft issue also. You may be suprised how many neighborhood kids know that you have turtles. Kids don't miss much in their hoods. Also, you'd be suprised at how quickly one child might drop a dime on another. Also, generously soak your pen...leave a sprinkler on it for an hour or so (if your area allows this and you can spare the water bill expense). This may bring them up if they're hiding.

I've had turtles escape from pens that I thought were escape proof. Sometimes, I can never figure out how they did it. I think that they may be able to climb up on another turtle in just the right way to escape. I've also had turtles stolen. All I can say is, "Don't give up hope." I've had both escaped and stolen turtles turn up after nearly a year of being missing. This is also why I make my entire backyard fence "turtle proof". Call it redundant security. You should see how they cop an attitude when you put a turtle that's been roaming free in your backyard for a couple of months back in the pen.

Covering your pens with hardware cloth, chain link fencing, or chicken wire is never a bad idea. I wish you the best of luck finding your turtles. Keep us updated.

Turtles will estivate during the hottest part of the summer. If you have really loose soil, and a pen that large, my guess would be that they are just hiding from you and think you need a little adrenaline boost.

The pen here is about 25'x30' and I sometimes don't see individual turtles for a few days at a time, especially in the summer heat.

I think the sprinkler idea is a good one: after an hour of 'rain', your girls will probably show themselves.

Yeah, I've done that before if the ground where they are buried gets saturated they'll usually come up.

We just had a relatively short(darn it!)rain and man
did they come out of the woodwork!

I agree, I think it's likely they are buried in the ground, especially since your pen sounds secure. Seems like some turtles are more prone to burying themselves for days at a time than others. maybe those 3 are the reclusive diggers in the bunch? good luck rounding em up.
-ian

I didn't see our Hobo for over three weeks in June because it was so hot and dry.
It rained on June 23rd very hard, the day we left to go out of town to pick up our new puppy. Two days later I finally saw Hobo out & about. It's been a very hot dry summer, more so than usual. After I found him June 25th he went right back underground then I didn't see him for another couple of weeks. It finally rained really hard this past week, since it did he's been out every morning and every evening.
I was getting just as worried as you seem to be, hopefully your girls will show up for you when you turn on the sprinklers.. according to the weather channel this nationwide heat is supposed to break very soon, I'll keep my fingers crossed for ya that they show up.
Good luck!
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PHRatz