Reptile & Amphibian Forums

These started hatching yesterday. There is two clutches in the box, laid a few days apart. Enjoy

These eggs are from a trio of ackies kept together their whole lifes. The two females laid a whole lot of clutches this year.

I also have a gilleni laying now. And a gouldi female is also down nesting. These are both products of a social/gregarious upbringing and exsistance. In both cases, the males and other females are left in the cages and either help with nesting or get out of the way.

One thing I find very interesting is, the males act totally different when the female nests. They stop whatever they normally do and stay in one place and sorta guard the area. Of course, they do not guard the area against humans, we are too big. Against other small animals. Put it this way, you do not want to add another member to the group, at this time. I will let you know what comes of these nestings. Cheers

FR, can you please post pics of their enclosures, and what kind of substrate they're nesting in. thanks

love to see pics of their enclosures. the whole enclosure if possible.
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-Marshall
1.1.0 ball pythons
0.0.1 red ackie

Hi,

This is not an ackie enclosure, but my Kimberleys are set up in a way that many successfully use with ackies. With a few modifications this will be a better enclosure for kims or ackies. I have about 14 inches of sandy, multi grain (different sized grains) dirt. There is little clay or organics in this soil and I feel with more of it (16-18 inches) I'd have better nesting success. Here in the northeast, you can buy it at nurseries as pool sand. On top of that, I have 2-3 inches of compacted oak and maple leaves. The top has minimal air flow to prevent humidity loss and the 50 w flood keeps good temperature choices 24/7.

Please take this with a grain of salt as I have had one nesting and it was a partial success at best (two good eggs, two duds), so I definately have room for improvement, but they are breeding again and they'll let me know this time around. They are about 8 months old btw. Thanks for looking.

Will

I'll have to preface this with... I don't have any monitors at all nor do I know much at all about them specifically,

They look as if they are both enjoy the single basking spot lamp. But, the one on top looks like it is dominant over the other one though, so it seems like it might make the cage better to have two basking lamps directly next to each other so one doesn't have to climb on top of the other? I've seen this in several other lizards (bearded dragons, iguanas, and uromastyx) when there is a limited availability of basking spots.

They may or may not keep sitting on top of eachother, but I'm just throwin' this out there to think about.

all social animals display dominace behavior as well. Being dominate does not exclude their need or wants to be around eachother. Meerkats were mentioned as being highly social, yet, their day is made up of continued dominace behaviors. Again, not saying monitors are social, but your exception is included with social animals.

I think Will has several basking lites. Which throws a stick in your spokes. Also, I keep lots of monitor outside, the whole cage is a basking spot, and they still do this monitor stack. Only outside, they sit next to eachother always touching some part of the body. Not on top. In Wills case, he needs two lower wattage lites to make a larger basking area. Cheers

I wasn't commenting to try to bring in the social aspects and whatnot, though I can see how someone might try to spin it to say that its dominance so they aren't social and whatnot. After all I agree with you on the whole social debate.

I just figured the same thing you said- two lights next to eachother would make the basking spot larger. From what I've seen in pictures there's a difference between two monitors sitting next to/partially over eachother and one monitor that looks as if its blatantly laying on top of another to get to the relatively small basking spot.

When we have an individual that does not feel right(anti social) it normally does down. That is, hides and stays hidden for long periods of time. Days at a time. Only coming up for the basics. These individuals often start to lose weight and do down hill.

Of course there are three ways(actually more) to fix this.

1. Seperate them.

2. let them work it out.

3. increase the size of the cage. Which allows more distance between them. Sometimes the cages are just to small.

I nearly always start with two. Unless violence is expressed. Which is rare. Then I move to number 3, and lastly 1.

Cheers

As I mentioned, I believe he has two basking lites in that cage. I could be wrong. So they are stacking even when they have choices.

To sorta change the subject back to being social. Monitors seem to want, what the other monitors want. Now to take it away from the other monitors, but to do the same things as the other monitors.

I think people make very primitive remarks. kinda compared to freudian type remarks, only not about the same thing. They judge every behavior as dominace. When in reality. There are hundreds of behaviors that are not about simple dominance. For instance its an easy one to say the bigger monitor gets more food. And yes thats common, until a smaller monitor has a better reason to have more food, then the smaller one will dominate the larger for short periods.

Or about dominance at all. Of course the arm wrap is not about dominance. But what is it. Its so very common. But only with monitors that get along.

You see, the problem is not about social or anti social. The problem is about monitors getting along in cages. What the boys here are missing is, Monitors have both behaviors to get along and behaviors to not get along. The "action point" is, we want to promote the first, we want them to get along. So we take the parts of their natural behavior, the parts that allow them to get along and focus on that.

Of course, the opposite is also done, our antisocial boys, take the antisocial parts and promote that. As so often mentioned, the anti social boys have a heck of a time having continued repeated success or any success at all.

So there it is, it is reality. As proved by us and others, you can socialize them, use whatever term you want to that means they get along fabuously, for long periods of time and achieve natural recruitment.

What is odd is expressed in that picture, they would rather stack on top of eachother, then move over to an unused basking area. Cheers
Or you put them together, have them tear eachother to shreds and then have to seperate them. I know what I pick. How about you?

I have posted lots of pics of cages in the past. I do not use one cage for a species. I have also said that a lot of times.

For ackies, I raise them in ten gallon tanks. Then move them to four foot troughts. Some get lucky and go out in the summer. These are in six foot circles. All are essensially the same, except the ten gallon tanks. They all have deep substrate, they all have many choices for temps and humidity. The outsider cages, I have little control over, as when its too hot, its too hot. Or when its not hot enough, there is little I can do until its time to bring them in.

I have so many cage types, I will not post it again, so you can check the archives. As I have stated, I have indoor cages, outdoor cages, indoor/outdoor cages. They consist of tanks, plastic tubs, cattle troughs, build in cages, even waterland tubs are used here.

The important part is not the cages, but what cages do. In most cases here, they are simple boxes that hold lots of substrate, the type depending on species. They have large doors for ease of changing the entire cage out. Most have regular litebulbs, a few have the sun. Some have both.

The last two years I installed a mist system on the smaller outdoor cages, thats on a time clock. Its to cool the cages in the hot afternoons. To prevent the monitors from baking and bake they would.

I hope you realize, its not the cages that are important, but what goes on inside the cages. Cheers and check the archives, I even posted pics as I build them.

Frank, do you believe aquariums can used for monitors? ive been using aquariums for my ackie and always hear people day that they are horrible, but i believe they can be modified to work. ive moved my ackie into a 5ft. x 1 1/2ft. x 2ft.(LWH) aquarium and me and my dad have built a custom top. it holds heat and humidity very well and i dont see why aquariums have such a bad rap with other people.
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-Marshall
1.1.0 ball pythons
0.0.1 red ackie

Hello FR. I spent 2 hrs checking the archives and did not find your cage posts. How about a clue as to when?

Mike