Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've heard the on record lives to be 10 or 11 years of age. But does anybody have a Bosc that lives to be well over 10 years? Like 15 years perhaps. I wonder what is the longest longevity for these guys. Anybody?

Mine lived about 8 years. I feel he would have lived longer if I hadn't been such an amatuer when I first got him. My vet had one for 13 years.
Just make sure you do your husbandry research, and study it, its very important.

But another way to think about a monitors life is, what has it done in its life. I mention this because so many reptile longevity records are set by individuals that were kept undermetabolized and dwarfed. They were never females and they never accomplished life events.

I would think its far more important to give your monitor a life, and not worry about how long it lives.

With that said, even attaining lifes events(hatch, grow, breed, and breed again and again) Monitors can and do exceed what you mentioned. I have an ackie or two, from 1991, and I have a lacie thats over 21(known years) it was adult when that time started. These individuals are great, great, great, etc, grandparents. So their lifes had a tiny bit of meaning. Of course there are many other meaningful events too. As in, doing what they are designed to do, swim, climb, dig, etc, in the things they recognize. Not sit on newspaper their entire lives.

So, consider allowing your monitor to LIVE, then measure how long. Just asking how long, does not include actual living, it only includes time spend in a cage. A harsh way to compare would be like this. Whats the lifespan of a person in solitary confinement? isn't that called their sentence, not a lifespan. Oh how sad am I. Cheers

i completely agree with this statement. all animals should be aloud to live vs. serving time. good points

cheers

Because my treating monitors as social animals, is to allow them a life in captivity, instead of living a life of solitude.

The boys(my opposition on this subject), offer that monitors are solitary and that does not help in keeping monitors in pairs or groups. In fact, keeping monitors without another monitor is training them to be solitary.

This is the very point of the whole war. The boys say, monitors are never paired up or in groups, never. But they also fail to state how the eggs get fertilized. So they are missing a huge chunk of whats happening in nature. The key here is, no matter what the boys say or think, nature and monitors work, and have worked for millions of years, without being labelled anything, they have been successful not knowing if they are social or anti soical. Wild monitors do not care what we think.

Next, Wild monitors have choices. Now compare that to captive monitors, which in most cases have absolutely no choice.

Our task is to give them a life, how do you do that without having them get along IN A CAGE, with another individual monitors. How can they mate and nesting and contribute behaviors without company?

So the point is clear, I could give a crap if they are social in nature(i think they are very social) But I allow them to be social in captivity. So they can carry out a life.

The key is, once you actually see them carry out a life. It appears that is what they are designed to do. They as a pair, devote their entire exsistance to recruit, which is exactly what happens in nature. Cheers

i may not completely agree with you about how social wild varanids are, but i do agree that they need to get together for periods of time for reproductions sake. their lives in captivity is really a concentrated version of the wild (or it should be) only we're concentrating the times when they're together. this is why we get multiclutching in captivity, and annual cycles in the wild. i think they can adapt well to this captive environment... you've been proving that for the past number of years, and i believe that when they breed eat swim dig in large enclosures in captivity they are experiencing life events. they're living instead of slowly dieing.

cheers
shay

Now we don't agree at all. Captivity is not a concentrated version of the wild. Its only captivity. These is no comparison.

The only thing that carries over from nature is the monitors and its inherent behaviors and abilities. Our task in captivity is to offer conditions that will allow them to express some of these natural abilities and behaviors. Sir, biology teaches you, they cannot invent behaviors(adapt) for a cage, the cage has to adapt to them.

Also the reason the multi clutch in captivity is food, period. In nature, they can and do under some circumstances. But in nature, food is in high demand and if an animal is successful, it produces its own competition for the same food. So normally they fill a habitat, until reproduction is limited. Under such circumstances as floods, fires, etc, things that reduce the population, the prey increases faster then the monitors do. Then there is an overbundance of food.

By the way, hasn't Komodos multiclutched in both captivity and in nature. Or are we not considering then wild, because of mans involvement?

you just described a couple of the points i was trying to make. they multi clutch in captivity because of the abundance of food compared to the wild = concentrated. i don't doubt that some varanids multiclutch in the wild. especially in regions that don't have winter such as the Philippines and Indonesia.

when i said "i believe that when they breed eat swim dig in large enclosures in captivity they are experiencing life events". i meant the same thing that you just said "Our task in captivity is to offer conditions that will allow them to express some of these natural abilities and behaviors"

sometimes i think you purposely twist my, and other peoples words into something they're not. our view of wild monitors may differ a little, but i'm not a pro field herper and i don't want to be. i do plan on getting out there as much as i can for experience but i plan on focusing on captives. in this area i know i have a lot to learn. so i'm interested in hearing your captive ideas thats given you success.

cheers
shay

cheers
shay

I surely am not doing that. You may consider a couple things, first, my brain is most likely scrambled. That is good reason I am so successful. I see things in a different way then others. In this case its good. hahahahahahahahha, not so good at other things.

The other thing to consider is, I have a totally different set of experiences. For instance, we have experienced many thousand clutches of monitors. I have to go dig one up in a minute. How on earth could I think the same as someone whos only talking from theory??? There is no and should be no possible way. At least I hope so.

So how on earth could I think the same as someone with a mere couple of hundred clutches???? I shouldn't be able to. Do you get that? I have experienced to many events to think anywhere close to them. Put it this way, the gap is so large that, they could be ten times smarter then me, and I would still know way more.(applies to some of my attackers)They may be smarter, but totally lack experience, both in nature and captivity.

In our case, I have far to much experience to think a cage, any cage, reflects nature. Not just from keeping reptiles in them for 44 years strait, and from being in the field for longer then that. But also during that time I build zoo enclosures and eventually had my own company that build naturalistic enclosures. Which means I have a tiny bit of understanding with all sorts of animals From Lions and bears(forth worth zoo) The gorillas and chimps(audubon park)(L.A.zoo)(woodlawn park) to manitees(lowry park), to beavers and otters and a zillion others(ASDM) and many more.

From all that, I learned, cages are not nature. Even if a cage looks like nature, it surely doesn't smell or feel like nature(concrete, fiberglass, plastics)etc. And they do not work like nature. Animals in nature pick things because of a use. They don't climb on rocks because they are rocks. If they are rock dwelling, they pick rocky areas that contain things that meet their needs. Like, cracks, crevices, mass temps, humidities(yes, plural) reflective temps, Of course a range of temps, and a biggie, by feel, if it does not feel right, they don't use it, They could careless if you or I call it a rock. Get it?

The question is, should I attempt to think backwards and act as if I have very little experience. Or should I be honest and call it like I see it.

That the boys or even you think I should think on your level is very very questionable. I hope you understand, I you had this type of experience with a different subject and I came in as a beginer and criticised you for not thinking on the same level as me. What would you say or think???? Oh well, time to dig up eggs, maybe some OK pics will happen. Cheers

i don't expect you to think on my level (of captive husbandry), but since you've been where i am and others are i would expect you to understand what we're saying and where we're coming from. my statements are pretty straight forward. you're just looking too deep. in the navy we say you're nucing it.

i don't think your success comes from your brain being scrambled, as you say. i think your inability to get along with others comes from your brain being scrambled. hahaha
your success obviously comes from your experience. something all keepers can learn from... so long as it doesn't come with a headache.

truce
back to monitors

cheers
shay

What is funny is, the last paragraph, you end with, "truce" hahahahahaha, you take a jab, then say truce. hahahahahahahaha.

by the way, lets read your monitor talk, no, not you asking questions, but sharing your experiences. Come on, why does it always have to be me that shares?