Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i was told by the breeder that my new babies were snow x lucestic, what do you all think

I think they are cute.

I also think that a breeder that is using the name leucistic shouldn't be breeding.

leucistic bearded dragons do not (yet) exist, it is a misplaced name.
The supposed luecistic dragons are nothing more then hypomelanistics with no other color, IMO Hypomelanistic standards.

So this means that your dragons have a hypomelanistic parent, so your dragons are herozygous for hypomelanistic and have the hypo gene from that parent.
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edited sig file; oversized graphic [phw 12/13/04]

thanks for the response, i do understand the marketed leucestic thing, but what about the snow parent how will that effect the color and genes, can i expect them to turn white or do i need to breed them to another het and produce white offsring
thanks again
Tony

>>thanks for the response, i do understand the marketed leucestic thing, but what about the snow parent how will that effect the color and genes, can i expect them to turn white or do i need to breed them to another het and produce white offsring
>>thanks again
>>Tony
I have been working with Dragons for two years now had this year have hatched out quite a few babies and have more on the way. When I first got into Dragons, I was surprised that the genetics of them have not really been proven. I am talking about he mutant genes, that can be carried as heterozygous or in the homozygous form.

What genes cause a “Leucistic” or Snow Dragon? Nobody really knows. I totally agree that the Marketed Leucistic, is not even close to a Leucistic mutation and I have no idea how that label was attached to them. I wasn’t around then, but it is extremely clear that it needs to be dumped! Marketed Leucistics do have clear nails and are obviously homo for the Clear Nails Hypo gene which is a mutant recessive gene. There may be other mutant genes that cause a Marketed, such as an Anerythristic gene, (Removes red pigment) If this is the case then a very Red Dragon that is homo for Anery, would be very white in appearance and then with the added homo Clear Nails gene, you would get something that looks like the Marketed. In the other worlds such as Boas, Corns and Geckos this would be called a Ghost.

Snows seem like they could be caused by something similar, but not necessarily the same genes. I am not sure how that name was attached to this phenotype either. It the other worlds a Snow is homo for Amelanistic and Anery, which Snow Dragons are not. It is extremely obvious to me, that there is a hypomelanistic gene, that is different than the Clear Nails gene. I have seen the Clear Nails talked about as being the only true hypo gene, which is really a joke. You could have a dozen hypo genes located at different loci that are all hypo genes and one is not the “true” hypo gene. This other hypo gene does not make the nails clear, but obviously greatly reduces the melanin. Just look at the webbing on the bellies of newborne dragons. The Hypo ones, almost have white bellies, while the Normals have strong webbing. In Corn Snakes for example there has been 6 hypo genes identified that are located at different loci and when bred together produce Normals. They all effect the appearance and melanin reduction in slightly different ways in there homo form. If you bred a Hypo Dragon X Clear Nail Dragon, you will get Normal Dragons het for two different hypo genes. The Snows also seem to be caused by an Anery gene, but it doesn’t necessarily need to be a compatible gene to the Anery gene in Marketeds. Again in Corns, there have been two different Anery genes identified and when bred together produce Normals het for both genes. If they were the same gene, a Snow X Marketed would produce 100% Anerys het for Hypo and Clear Nails.

I really do not know what the make up of a Marketed and Snows are, but they have proven to be reproducible and they both seem to be more than just selective breeding, so your Dragons are Het for the mutant genes that cause both Snows and Marketed. I am suspicious that the Hypo gene in Snows may be co-dominant or dominant, just like the Hypo gene in Boas. The Clear Nail gene is obviously recessive like most other recessive genes. The main reason that I think the Hypo gene may be dominant, is that when I breed two Hypos together I get about 25% that are Normal. This would indicated a breeding of two dominant Het Hypo X Het Hypos together. This type of breeding would produce 25% Normals even thought both parents were Hypos. The rest of the clutch would all be Hypos, but 50% of them would het Hypo and 25% would be Homo Hypo but look the same, or as the Boas World would say, Supers, which means nothing more than they have two of the same genes located at the same locus.

I really do no think that you got ripped off or anything. If the Snows and Marketeds are caused by different mutant genes, you would get Normals from that type of breeding. It is very odd to me, that Dragon people automatically think that if they breed two whitish Dragons together that they will get a whitish offspring. If the parents carry similar genes this would be the case, but if not, Normals would be produced. It is exactly like breeding a Clear Nails X Trans. You will get Normals het for Clear Nails and Trans, not a mixture of the two phenotypes like mixing paint. It really doesn’t work that way, unless you are talking about genes that are not an on/off mutant gene. On/off mutant genes need to be homo for the genes for them to be seen. When they are only hets, the gene is carried, but it can not be seen, unless it is a dominant gene, but most mutant genes that are discovered are recessive.

Marketed Leucistics are not Leucistics at all. I have no idea how they were labeled as such, but the name needs to be dumped. “Marketed” would be better than anything with Leucistic in the name.
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Joe Pierce
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"Home of the guaranteed feeders"
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