Reptile & Amphibian Forums

hi,

i have a 3-toed boxie named einstein and he's been with me for 10 years now. overall, he's a healthy turtle. he's a picky eater and doesn't like anything other than yams, corn, and peas. i'm shredding other foods and mixing it w/ the yams so that i'd trick him into eating a little bit of other foods. for many years i've had einstein in an indoor enclosure with UV light. since i've moved to CA recently, einstein has been allowed outside during the day for some natural sunlight. he comes back in at night. a bloodwork done on einstein a few months ago shows that everything is normal.

i have a few questions:

1) should i be worried about his shell being so dry. it's got a little peeling around the edges of some of its scutes. generally though, einstein's shell is hard and firm and there are no signs of an open wound or pus. could this dryness be an early sign of shell rot? the dryness is nothing new. for as long as i've had einstein his shell has been like this. it hasn't gotten worse but it hasn't gotten better. the vet said it's fine but i've seen pics of other 3-toed boxies and they all have shiny smooth shells. is there anything i can do? could it be the lack of natural sun over the years?

2) do you think einstein's shell is too small for his body? the vet said it's not that einstein's shell is too small but it's because einstein's too fat!! he says einstein's fat because einstein can't close up completely. his butt sticks out when his head is inside. einstein's 4.75 inches long, 3.5 inches wide, and weighs 289g. is einstein's shell too small for his "athletic" body or is he really overweight?

3) do turtle shells stop growing after its early years? kind of like how humans don't grow taller after puberty? if there is a growing phase for turtle shells, then maybe einstein passed the period and his shell won't grow anymore. his toe nails grows so he must have enough nutrition in his food for some things to grow.

thanks so much for all your help. hope the pictures are clear enough for you to help me and einstein!

Your boxies pics are great. He is healthy; but his shell has that unmistakable upward curve on the first lower scutes of his carapace.

*The side-view of his shell shows a three toed boxie lacking in a more rounded front and back. His dome for his body should be higher and again more rounded at both ends. The curling of his shell at the bottom and sides is clear evidence that his shell is too small for his body due to a lack of vitamin D 3 produced by UBV waves in natural sunlight. Without it he could not utilize any available calcium; or grow properly. It appears that he is too large to correct the shell growth problem.

It must have occurred during the critical growing years. His shell did not attain a balance of D3, moisture, and calcium with artificial light. Some artificial lights state that they produce high levels of UVB light; but truthfully there is a great deal of inconsistency with them and they stop producing all UVB waves after only six months or less.

Giving him natural sunlight will not harm him but may perk up his appetite.

His shell does appear very dry. He should have exposure to soak in water daily.

In all other respects he is fine. He seems to be healthy and should like it in CA.

Remember with the dry air there; he'll need long soaks in water. A small mist producing gadget would make him more comfortable and can prevent respiratory and dry eyes problems.
Ric

I agree with the opinion that Ric has voiced.

Overall,though, Einstein looks pretty good in the greater scheme of things: The abnormal growth could have been ALOT worse. He's still a nice looking turtle

I encourage you to keep up the efforts at varying his diet, and continue letting him get plenty of real sunlight and humidity., and, because he can't completely close up in his shell, take extra precautions to keep him safe while outside.

Thanks so much for your response! It's really too bad and it saddens me to think that Einstein's shell won't be able to grow anymore. I guess all I can do right now is to make sure he's happy here in CA with more sun and eating more of a varied diet.

Do you recommend using a multivitamin or a calcium supplement? Einstein's calcium reading from his bloodwork was normal. My vet said it's unnecessary but I'm always questioning his advice. For one, he told me Einstein is fat and that his shell isn't too small. Well, ok...maybe Einstein is a tincy wincy overweight, but to not notice his shell as being a little off...that makes me wonder about his experience with turtles. He's supposed to be a great herp vet over here, maybe he's good with other herps and not so much with turtles. I'm going to have to find another vet with whom I'm comfortable with.

I will always use this forum as a means to educate myself about turtles. It's so helpful to hear other owners' stories.

Thanks again for all the advice!

Yvonne

"Do you recommend using a multivitamin or a calcium supplement?"

A multi vitamin and calcium supplement via dusting his food is prudent; especially with your boxie's limited preference for foods. Use it once or twice a week along with natural sunlight.

Make sure that you are not giving him Vit D3 when he is exposed to natural sunlight as he can overdose on this when his body is now making it.

Rep Cal makes a vitamin dust called Herptivite that uses beta carotene to regulate vitamin A and it contains many other vitamins. Rep Cal also makes a calcium dust with D3 or without. Living outside avoid D3 as it can overdose him.

Miner- All is another brand of reptile vitamin Dust and has calcium that is made with D3 or without. If you choose it, use the outdoor formula indicated with an "O" that does not have D3.

Both are good well proven brands.

If you change his living habits and keep him inside most of the time; then you'll need to change to a vitamin dust that has D3.

He's a fine healthy boxie; enjoy him.

Ric

Florida Boxie pipped July 2006

Thanks Ric for all the advice. Sorry...one more question. When Einstein's outside in our patio, he likes to hide under a pretty lush plant. Barely any sun gets through the plant's big fan leaves. Is that ok? Maybe he's new to the environment and at this point he's scared so likes to hide. Should I supplement his Calcium w/ D3 since even when he's outside, no sun gets on him. Thanks so much for all your help.

Yvonne

Even in the shade, he's getting 100 times more UVB light than a direct beam of the artificial sunlight ( bulbs ). I wouldn't give him D3 when exposed to outside light.

Try putting him in water when it's bright outside via a small kiddie pool. Make sure he can't hurt himself getting out.

Wild Boxies like the first light of the day....Dawn.... when UVB is high and it's not too hot.

Ric

Thanks Ric. I'm going to do all the things you've suggested. I think the environment we have here in CA is better for Einstein than being kept indoors all the time. Thanks again for all your help.