Reptile & Amphibian Forums

We made the plans and got the supplies for our savannah enclosure.
It looks like it is going to be 15 feet long, three feet wide and
thirty inches tall.

I will have a basking light on each end but was wondering if you
guys think we'll need a UTH. The ambiant temp in the room is going
to be high, around 80 or so as it is the room we keep all our
desert lizards in so it stays really warm.

The front of the enclosure will be glass, the back and
sides are on the walls and the bottom is melanine. Any suggestions
on things you would suggest we take into consideration while
building this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Nina

If the room is 80, you shouldn't need an UTH.

Why melamine? Soon as you throw dirt in there, it will swell up and rot. I doubt it would last a year.
D.

Well, we always make enclosures that can be taken apart and have parts
replaced. The melamine was free and is furniture grade so I don't
think it will be too bad, if we have to replace it soon then we will.

The humid area and hide are in a recessed tub. We cut a hole in the
melamine and drop a pan in there. That should help some. We have had
luck with melamine in the past but don't use it on high humidity reptiles.

The most important part is that we need the enclosure made fast. We
had not planned on getting monitors and the 40 gallon tubs we
have them in is definately NOT what they need! ROFL

Thanks
Nina

When melamine can ever be considered 'furniture quality'. Oh well, that is for a carpentry forum I guess.

I agree with Goon on all points.

Even if the 'wood' is free, the labor in building the cage will be there. The moisture in dirt will quickly degrade melamine, I have used it on temporary enclosures, and they have not lasted more than a couple of months.

Anyway, the whole recessed tub, begs the question what and how deep of substrate are you planning to provide. A deep layer of dirt (and 8" is not deep) provides lots of exercise, temp and humidity options.

I would look into using floodlights for a hot spot, CHE's will raise ambients and are not very effective (in my experience) at providing hot spots. Your base temps (80F) are already on the high side (IMO), a CHE will more than likely make it too hot.

Just my .02

Good Luck,

--Robert

The tub is approximately 15 inches deep and we'll have dirt substrate
in it.

As far as temps. I have not claimed to know what is best, but did
pose the question for advice from this board. Robyn from Pro Exotics
recommended his caresheet, which I followed. If you think 80 is too
high, what temps do you recommend and why? Unless I get strong reasons not to follow ProExotics caresheet, that is
the one I will use, but I AM open to suggestions.
I would really like to hear anything I can do to make this a great
enclosure for the savs and will be happy to adjust anything that will
aid in their wellbeing.

As far as basking lights, that is no problem at all. I simpy play with a variety
bulbs until we get where we want it.

Nina

Room temps in the 80's will not always equal enclosure temps in the 80s. In order to prevent a monitor dehydration machine, my enclosures have very little ventilation. My enclosure temps run about 5-10F hotter than ambient room air with just 2 low wattage floods providing a hot spot. If I were to throw in a couple high wattage CHE's (which are the only one that create decent hot spots), the temps could get out of control.

Since you mention it though, I do try and offer choices below 80F (when possible), I am not sure if they are important, but the monitors use them.

--Robert

I think I can help on the ambient by offering both basking lights
on the same side of the enclosure. Nothing I can really do about
ambient room temps since I can't add another room to the house and
there aren't that many rooms that can hold 45 square foot enclosure.

Ok, next question, and maybe I am missing something on this as well,
but why do you feel that ventilation causes dehydration? I would
definitely argue that lack of ventilation can cause an excess in
humidity but have never felt that too much ventilation aided in
dehydration in a properly housed reptile. Educate me on what I am
missing.

If all of this fails I guess I'll just use the enclosure for my
russian tortoises...ROFL...but I am really enjoying the thoughts
of keeping these savs, just not sure if we have the right place for
it or not.

For anyone reading this that didn't read my original thread, we didnt
just go out and buy a reptile that we didn't have knowledge of or
the right environment for, but rather were given these (when no one else
would take them) because
the keeper had taken HORRIBLE care of them and we are trying to
get them back on their feet.

Nina

All I was saying is the ambients are already close to high, and that floodlamps will do better in providing hot spots without raising the ambients.

Hot spots require heat, heat evaporates water, ventilation allows both heat and water to escape. By reducing ventilation you can use less heat, which will help water retention in the substrate even more. It may be slightly worse because I live in a relatively dry environment. If I kept my monitors in open cages, the substrate would dry out very quickly (hours or days), and would need water added. Misting, pouring buckets of water in, whatever, ends up with wet dirt, which none of my monitors seem to appreciate. This is opinion only, but I think people like to blame things on the ambient humidity (too high or too low), when the real problem is substrate related.

--Robert

That makes sense. We do live in a humid area so that could make
the difference. In fact, it has been WAY more humid than normally, which
I can tell by the water we need when hatching chicks. We are using
way less.

Anyway.....I think we have a solution in case the temps get too
high, we can run the air conditioner in there. We've just never
really had to and the breeding crickets and mealworms always liked
the temps! It was AWFUL before we added the herp room, they were all
in OUR bedroom!

Anyway....I really appreciate the time you have taken.

I do have another question. Could part of the enclosure have astro
turf and part of it be dirt? Since it is so long, I do plan on having
rocks in some areas and was thinking of having some areas in astro turf.

Thanks
Nina

is no different, if not worse, than having a bare floor.

Use dirt, and lots of it.

I do not keep savs, just jobiensis, acanthurus, gouldii and argus. I would recommend getting and reading D.Bennett & Ravi's book.

--Robert

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions and give your opinions, it has been greatly appreciated.

Nina

Other than get entwined in their toes and cut the circulation causing their toes to fall off. Its dry and they dont use it. Use dirt deep dirt Ive tried several substrates and would never go back from dirt. Its alot of work to dig, strain etc but its worth it. It holds moisture, it holds a burrow, they recognize it and its cheap and abundant. The idea of it getting all over the house may make you not want it but its for them not you. If worrying about dirt in the house or how hard it will be to set up with dirt then dont get a monitor.
I dont have to clip claws either when they live in dirt, my one friend use cyprus mulch and his monitors claws are razor sharp in 2 days again. Its been a year or more since Ive had to trim Sobeks, and Shadows havent needed done since I got him from Rob Faust. Ive never trimmed the timors, or the Ackies and dont intend to ever.

Yeah, I was just thinking about all that dirt and how in the world can I keep my white carpet clean in the herp room if I use dirt.

Also, can I feed them greens or flowers or something cause I hate to have nasty little bugs and rodents in my house as well.......

give me a break
Nina

Amazing how easily people read attitude into advice on this forum, but Ive done it myself.
Never use astroturf, years ago I learned from even a lousey vet for herps about what it does to lizards toes. Seems to be the typical reason someone want to use another substrate other than dirt is truelly for them not their monitors, unless they know no better. As far as Im concerned feed em what you want but accept responsibility for your actions. Theres your break. Maybe when you make enough mistakes youll see advice on monitors in a different light, I know I did, and I raised them for over 12 years.

Amazing how easily people read attitude into advice on this forum, but Ive done it myself.
Never use astroturf, years ago I learned from even a lousey vet for herps about what it does to
lizards toes. Seems to be the typical reason someone want to use another substrate other than dirt is
truelly for them not their monitors, unless they know no better. As far as Im concerned feed em
what you want but accept responsibility for your actions. Theres your break. Maybe when you
make enough mistakes youll see advice on monitors in a different light, I know I did, and I raised
them for over 12 years.
------------------
I found the "if you are afraid of getting dirt in your house" to be condescending.

As for "feed them what you want but accept responsibility for your actions"....where did
that come from? I have ASKED what to feed but made no stand one
way or another.

I have not ignored any advice on monitors so what mistakes do you feel I am about
to make?

Nina

Most people that get offended and the subjects that cause the most "detection of attitude", were examples I gave. As far as condescending no, but I could have said "you may want to use that astroturf to keep that dirt off of your pretty carpet, and dresses". I didnt say that did I? When I read "would half dirt and half astroturf work" it automatically comes to mind "why, use dirt, the extra work and sweat is worth the effort".

Ok, let's call a truce. I guess I am just testy cause all I am trying
to do is take care of someone elses mlstake. I can't imagine entering
into monitor ownership casualy and obviously too many people do.

I guess I also hated the statement part you added ".....then maybe
a monitor isn't for you". or something to that effect. DUH! ROFL
I would not have chosen to purchase one at this point..with no
knowledge of their care OR a proper enclosure, but we have them now
and hopefully we can keep at least one of them alive, the poorest
one is not looking good.

Nina

How do you set it up so they don't get the dirt in their water? When I tried it my sav turned his water bowl into a mud bath and decorated the whole cage with his own adobe wallpaper in hours.

You can set up rocks around their water container. Or set the water on a big board. Something along those lines, so when they walk in and out of the water, they dont track dirt directly into it.
Either way though, youre not going to get around changing the water 1- 2x's a day.