Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi,

I was wondering if people can share their experiences with Phoenix Worms. My 3-toed boxie likes superworms but the Calcium-Phosphorus ratio isn't as good as the Phoenix Worms. Also it has more fat %. Did your boxies like them? Did they wiggle too much that your boxies can't catch them? Thanks!

I recently got some, mainly for my juveniles.

I haven't tried them with adults yet, and they
aren't that big, so depending on how many turtles
you have, I don't know if it would be the most
economical choice for adult turtles.

My juveniles seem to like them and the larger
ones, about an inch long are just about the right
size. But it would take several to make one meal
for an adult turtle. But it wouldn't hurt to try
as part of a varied diet.

As far as superworms, you can improve the calcium
content by coating them in calcium powder, or you
can gut load them with collard greens.

Phoenix Worms - The Hype- The Options - The Scoop

Phoenix Worms are a good start food for hatchling boxies that don't take to small garden worms. Their calcium content is stated as high; but their leathery skin turns some hatchlings off. For me having a fair amount of hatchlings each year; I found it very tedious to pick out the small maggots in their pulverized walnut shell like bedding.

Often the medium would stick to my tweezers. I had to rinse off each maggot as the hatchlings didn't like the bedding material in their mouth (very tedious)

Due to their small size and cost ratio (even the largest sized ones) in my opinion are not advised as a food for anything but hatchlings as you would need too many of them just for a snack!

However if you don't have small garden worms (which most boxie hatchlings love) then you can try phoenix worms. You do have other options with the high cost of these feeders as compared to the weight of actual feed your getting. Long before the fad of phoenix worms; for the few boxie hatchlings that didn't favor garden worms; I've found that hatchling boxies love fruit fly maggots!

Fruit Flies aka Drosophila are offered in three different subspecies and attain three different sizes. The smallest is D.melanogastor, the next largest is D.buzzatti, and the largest and best for boxies is Drosophila hydei. I purchase flightless ones, which as some mature, are great food for my tropical fish. Or I can start a new colony.

They are great as starter food for stubborn boxie hatchlings, cost $6.00 for 500-900 with no shipping. They are lab raised, FDA approved, so no chance of unwanted bugs and can be purchased at most Pet-Smart, Petco, or local petshops. All I do is use a popsicle stick and get a cluster of them ( the larvae, tiny maggots) on the end of the stick and tap them off in a shallow water dish. All of my finicky hatchlings loved them. I added calcium with D3 to the water and they consumed it with their meal. They are a bit smaller than the small phoenix worms; but do not have that leathery skin which many hatchling boxies dislike. Softer, enhanced with D3 and much cheaper... I like them. I can scoop up 20 at a time as opposed to searching for one phoenix worm and cleaning it for each boxie.

They are also offered online of course along with other choices of small enticers for hatchling boxies, such as Springtails. You can start a colony of these at home along with Isopods (pillbugs, sowbugs ...lab raised ) as they come with directions.
Cost is much lower than Phoenix Worms.

Incidentally, no producers of Phoenix Worms will give information out as to how to culture them.

The calcium rating on phoenix worms is a bit misleading as they are somewhat dehydrated which concentrates their mineral content. Phoenix worms(soldier fly maggots) naturally encrust themselves with their mineral reserves to prevent dying when exposed to harsh conditions. The producers of this feed intentionally cause this to occur to boost calcium ratios as well as slow the maggot's metabolism for shelf life. This dehydration gives them a very tough leathery skin. They will swell up if soaked in water to 1/3 larger making them more palatable to hatchling boxies. This also lowers their calcium to weight ratio; giving a more accurate comparison akin to similar feeders.

The cost, the tedious time required for feeding, the inability to start my own colony, the inaccurate hype of calcium ratios, and the other more efficient means of starting hatchling boxies are my reasons for opting to advise with reservations, using "Phoenix Worms aka Maggots of the Soldier Fly"

Ric K.

Thanks for the info! It does seem too much hassle and not beneficial financially to feed my adult boxie with Phoenix Worms. I'm just going to sprinkle calcium on the superworms and other foods before feeding them to Einstein. Thanks!

I just found the following info....
(link provided below...

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Black Soldier Fly
Development

Black soldier flies lay their eggs in batches, with an average of about 900 per mass.

The eggs hatch in 4 days at 24°C (75°F), and the larvae develop through five instars in 2 weeks or more. The length of the larval period is greatly extended by low temperatures or lack of food.

The pupa is formed within the pupal case (puparium) formed by the integument of the last instar larva, and the pupal stage lasts 2 weeks or more.

The adult emerges from the puparium through a T-shaped slit in the anterior.

The life cycle from egg to adult requires 38 days at 29°C (84°F) and 60 days at 20°C (68°F).

With the long life cycle, large populations of larvae of various sizes may build up in the breeding habitat.
------------------------------------------------------------

Previously, I was under the impression that the larval phase was too long to make culturing practical, but according to this,
if the larva is well fed with manure, it may only take a few
weeks.

I'm going to try this with some of my larger worms using some
manure donated by our bunnies.

Now, one question is....will they eat something other than manure? And if they won't, would parasites be a problem?

To compare and contrast with your post, my larger juveniles don't seem to be bothered by the substrate or skin of the phoenix worms although I usually choose the lighter colored ones that are probably not as "chewy".

I have seen smaller babies reject them, but they seem to be more likely to accept the smaller phoenix worms.

If these can be cultured easily, I'm thinking the small larvae might be a good option for some babies if they are well hydrated and kept in a different substrate.

They are kind of expensive, so its definately a better deal to be able to culture them.

Link

Thanks for the link and reply.

Afer having purchased a very large order of phoenix worms in the early spring; I did some research and found there are several subspecies of Wild Soildier Flies.

The variant sold is a domesticated version that may have mixed ancestery from several of the subspecies.

The common Soldier Fly must live part of it's life on chicken manure; which would be contaminated with all sorts of nasty bugs. Reptiles being very close to birds on the evolutionary scale would be very susceptible to any bird diseases. ( more especially with this mutated bird flu traveling via wild birds to domestic poultry)

Another subspecies of soldier fly is aquatic and feeds part of it's life on algae.

I tried with the wild variety and the domestic variety( trying several uncontaminated mediums) since this past June to culture soldier flies after my very expensive order. All trials were unsuccessful.

Thanks,

Ric