Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This is also from today and is still going on. I have no ideas what the outcome will be. So lets just look at these two.

This one is outside and under a flat bottomed mock rock water bowl. This one dug in yesterday afternoon. I noticed she was not up, so i looked under the bowl. This is exactly were she started her last two clutches. If you cound this one, it will be three within two months. She also laid two clutches in the first couple of months of this year. Once clutch produced twin babies from one egg.

I you look hard, not very good pics, you will see tunnels from outside the bowl, then a larger trench. The second pic shows a burrow at the botton of the trench. Enjoy

I am not sure how this will come out, as she is a little beat up. I will keep my fingers crossed.

This pic is from inside. Its from under a board, actually a retes stack. You can see the same tunnels as she burrowed under the board. This one has two holes going down, one in the upper right hand area, and one in the lower left hand area. I believe this female will come out of the same hole she went in. Enjoy the pic.

Even thought these are different. One indoors the other outdoors, both nests are very very similar. Oh there is more differences then that. The upper one is a Pygmy mulga monitor. The last one is a Montane kingsnake. Hmmmmmmmm results coming soon.

What is so funny is, these are happening now, and this brings up a point. First, I learned about snake nesting from wild variable kings. I found their nests in nature(late seventies) and kept testing until I could recieve the same results in captivity. Not just recieve eggs, but the same type of nesting I saw in the nature.

Some of the folks here, want monitors to be completely different and seperate from other reptiles, but sadly I find them very much alike. Just hotter and faster I suppose.

Oh, don't worry, I don't think I will have another clutch for a few days, so you can rest. Enjoy

Frank,
What is the time frame from the time they go down to when they come up? Monitors vs kingsnakes that is.
Best,
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Jason L. Dobry
Research Associate
College of Veterinary Medicine
Department of Veterinary Comparative Anatomy, Pharmacology and Physiology
Washington State University

Well, its about the same, but its variable for both. With our kingsnakes, I normally place then in a nesting cage(the whole cage is a nesting area) just before they shed. But I really should place them in there sooner. As soon as I place then in their box, They make burrows, and come back up to eat for a few days, they will lay from one day to five or six after they shed. They can do down and lay within a day, or stay down for several days.

The small monitors normally dig burrows at the time they copulate, which is anywhere from 8 days to three weeks before they lay. They do can go down and nest in a day, or stay down for three days. I start to worry at about three days.

With the kingsnakes, I bury panes of glass in the substrate. they normally nest just under or between two panes of glass. This way, I get dig down to the glass and watch them nest, without disturbing them.

In this pic, the female is just starting to lay her first egg, you can see the scales distended.

This pic(cal king) is with the glass pane removed. Notice how fine and purposeful the nest is. The packing of the dirt around the eggs, so it does not touch. This too is exactly what I saw with natural kings.

I have been testing the glass pane with some monitors, with some success, but mostly they make dirt burrows. Thanks for the questions Cheers

Frank, what other species of snakes do you keep at the ranch if any?
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-Marshall
1.1.0 ball pythons
0.0.1 red ackie

That is absolutey crazy that they'll nest directly under a pane of glass like that. Are they prone to lay eggs under something hard like rocks and such and the glass acts similar? What about the monitors?

I would take that bet, yes some snakes recognize nesting under some hard object. In the field, I know pyros do, But I also know in some locals they do not. That makes a good question, do all populations understand many ways to nest or only a few?

I used this method successfully on V.kingorum. But other then that, they do not seem to give a crap about hard flat objects. At least the smaller monitors. I have had some success doing this with larger monitors.

You can see the board I am holding up, to photograph these gouldicross eggs. I wonder if glass would work better then wood?

I am using some large rock tile plates in some cages now. Cheers

hey Frank, we have seen the same burrowing and egg laying with our Coxi, Mandarin and Pyro colubrids.

we apply monitor theory to their setup- temp gradients and choices, a good soil, even wood stacks : )

we have hatched out babies in the cage soil as well, although that is usually a surprise, unknown clutch.

always fascinating!
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

Retes boards were developed with pyros. Then much later used for monitors. Its gone full circle. hahahahahahaha Cheers

This pic is from a week or so ago. This behavior was the genisis for using a board stack. In another area about a 1/2 mile from this spot, there is some rocks with layers of cracks. They were what I duplicated those many years ago. I have been watching these pyros for over thirty years. Enjoy the pic. Oh, I did take pics and temps, but snakes. The snake was never bothered. hahahahahaha.