Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i just went to the show in hamburg and got three new darts. i got a female imitator who is in a tank with tons of plants, an auratus and a leuc (both unsexed) in a ten hex w/ tons of plants, waterfall... i've been putting 30-40 fruit flies (melanogaster) in the hex tank for the leuc and auratus and they seem to be doing good with that amount. is that enough?

I just got some young darty frogs myself and i have found they have quite the voracious appetites i have been feeding each about 60-80 a day small fruit flies (in 2 feedings). Their growth rate is excellent as well. Patrick at saurian.net has a great dart frog faq page. He pretty much says feed them as much as they can eat, and the more they are fed the faster they will grow.
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0.1 Ornate Box Turtle (tortoise)
1.1 Red ear Sliders (Lucy and Ricardo)
1.1 Leopard Geckos (unnamed)
.1 South African Boerboel...Mastiff (claire)
0.0.2 Leucomelas
0.0.2 D. Tinc powder blue
0.0.2 D. Azureus

wow, thats a lot of fruit flies, in the begenning i was putting more in, but then there was a lot left over so i cut back a bit. saurian.net is an awsome web page, they have everything there! thanks

You are doing the right thing to cut back when flies are still visible from the last feeding. Over-feeding isn't a problem with young froglets and juveniles, but some of the notorious "eating machines" such as leucs, the tinctorius group, including azureus and galactonotus, P. terribilis, etc., can become truly obese when over-fed as adults, which isn't good for them. They develop what I regard as an "Idaho Potato Butt," a syndrome common in SE Idaho matrons in particular, also called "malignant obesity." The more active, athletic thumbnails such as the imitators and obligate egg feeders like pumilio, don't seem to over-eat. They always seem to have something better to do.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
7 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
6 P. terribilis mint and organe
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus
2 D. azureus
4 P vittatus
2 P. lugubris

all the ones i have are juviniles, and the leuc seems to be a good size, so do the others. the auratus seems to be chowing the most. i have a question about the imitator, she's in pretty much the same spot all the time except when i feed her. it's on a fern close to the glass, is that normal? also, how do you keep the temps down when you have a glass top, i keep having to turn it off cause it's getting too hot.

The imitator is acting normally. Imitators are more active in groups or pairs, however. Their athletic interactions are what make them among the most interesting of all darts to observe. While the imitator will do just fine by herself, not the least bit lonely in anthropomorphological terms, she'd be more active and interesting for you to watch if she had a companion or two of either sex to take up her social life. At this point, she simply has no where else to go except the part of the vivarium that is the most comfortable for her among the ferns. It's not that she is missing out, so much as you are missing out watching a better show if she had something better to do than just live and eat all by herself. She will survive alone quite well. She just won't do as many cute things as she would with some companions of her own species.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
7 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
6 P. terribilis mint and organe
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus
2 D. azureus
4 P vittatus
2 P. lugubris

You're making me feel giulty, right now she's in a 5 gallon. The guy i got her from said that would work, just nothing smaller. Would that be big enough for another one? and you said either sex would work? i'm not going to another show for a few months, but do you think 5 gallons is ok? she certainly seems fine it in. thanks a ton!

The lone imitator is fine in 5 gallons, as long as she is alone. If you want to add more however, go for broke and get about 3 or 4 and put them together in an 18 to 30 gallon hex high tank where they can really show off and have some room to do it, with lots of bromeliads and back ground to hop around in. These guys are athletic and need room to do their thing in--possibly more room than some of the larger, more lethargic frogs do. The imitators are the sexy Tarzans of the jungle, and really get around a lot. Since they are able to breed and raise their own tadpoles by themselves, it's really worth giving them the space to do it and then just sit back and watch the show.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
7 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
6 P. terribilis mint and organe
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus
2 D. azureus
4 P vittatus
2 P. lugubris

uh,i can't stand making hex tanks, it takes so long. i just did a 10 hex and it was sooo much more difficult than a regular 10 gallon. could i put some in a 20 high tank, what about a 30 breeder? i have a 30 breeder i could put those in. i just want her to be happy. could i put other species of frogs in with imitators? thanks.

I apologize again for the late replies. I've been unable to follow the forums as well as I'd like to due to some other obligations.

A 20 will do fine, although the hex's are my own preference. I don't find them all that difficult to set up, and am currently setting up a 20 hex for a pumilio baby that needs to be separated from its parents soon--before they start picking on it. I wouldn't mix your imitators with any other species. In a very large tank, 80 gallons or more, you might get by with keeping them with a couple of P. terribilis that very rarely climb around much--although even they can be found sitting in bromeliad axils at times. I've never tried any sort of mixing myself, although it does work for some people with large tanks. I just wouldn't do it without a lot of experience raising the same frogs separately and noting their individual habits and personalities. It's something that just can't be generalized. The general consensus is usually, "don't mix different dart species together."

I do intend to try it myself one of these days, if my 180 gallon aquarium tank is ever free from fish. I'm still not sure just what I would mix, however.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
7 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
6 P. terribilis mint and organe
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus
2 D. azureus
4 P vittatus
2 P. lugubris

you don't think hexes are hard? i wish i felt the same way. i absolutly love them for darts. making the flase bottom fit was the hardest part, and having to do all the sides seperatly was hard too. plus i only did a 10 gallon so it was kind of cramped. it took like 3 weeks, whick is 2 and a half weeks longer than it takes to do a normal tank of the same gallon size. do you have any tricks or anything, maybe i'm missing something. i guess if you did it without a false bottom it would be easier, but i made a waterfall so kind of needed one. i love pumilios, i used to have one, then we went on vacation and had somebody watch all the animals and when we got back it was gone, i think it excaped. don't know how many times i told them to make sure all the lids were closed... it was a bastimentos. what kind are you getting?

i'm definetily not getting an 80 gallon tank (i have 20$ at the moment) but a 20 might work. i probally wouln't do it for a bit cause right now i'm working on a fish tank. but i think that'll be my next project. wow, 180 gallons, thats a lot, what kind of fish do you have?
heres some pics:

I think I've repeated myself too many times on this forum, but since people come and go, I'll do it again. My current enthusiasm for making a false bottom easily and quickly, is using Coco-Tek hydroponic slabs cut to fit the bottom. They are about 3 inches thick and quite sturdy, but since they also split horizontally, you can make them thicker, if you want. You can then simply cut out areas for ponds, or to hold the pump, etc. and go from there. You can also split it to use as a drip wall, or a background for a cork bark falls or whatever. I've become a fan of "Great Stuff" for filling in behind cork. I cover the Coco-Tek with a layer of weed cloth, then put whatever substrate and plants on top of that. The Coco-tek is rather coarse cocoanut fiber that comes in 6"X3"X36" blocks, that has been treated with a latex type substance that makes it sturdy enough to hold soil, and prevents any deterioration. It is easily cut vertically or stripped horizontally into any depth you want. Around the edges of the vivarium, between the Coco-Tek and the glass, I merely pour in some aquarium gravel to hide the Coco-Tek, although by itself, it isn't all that obnoxious. Water circulates though it freely. The weed cloth is to filter out the substrate particles so they don't clog the "false bottom."

With everything on hand, I can set up and plant a tank in a day. These photos are of a 10 gallon set up, and unfortunately, the Coco-Tek has already been covered with weed cloth. I'm not very organized about taking pictures of a process. This is more or less one day's progress. Then of course, one has to test out the water pump and let things cure, run it long enough to get rid of the foam on the waterways and do a few water changes to clear stuff up. I let plants grow, perhaps add plants, change things for a month or more before it's ready for frogs.

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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
7 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
6 P. terribilis mint and organe
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus
2 D. azureus
4 P vittatus
2 P. lugubris