Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Does anyone know a good source or know how to accurately distinguish the 2 subspecies of hermann's? Which is more rare?

This is a very common mistake most people make and unless you are extremely familiar with mediterranean tortoises especially hermanns alone, you will have a hard time differentiating the two. I have over 13 years experience with both subspecies and it has become very easy for me. I have created several diagrams on both turtles times and on www.shelledwarriors.co.uk

The Eastern Hermanns Tortoise (Testudo hermanni boetgerri) is the larger more abundant form. It has a very wide range, is always available in the pet industry and is quite variant in color and size. Most females exceed 6" and there are records of 10" specimens from parts of the world such as Bulgaria. Males as in most species of chelonian, are smaller. Again, some males attain rather large dimensions in certain localities. The typical size of an adult eastern female is 7 to 8" and for males 5.5 to 7". My adult females are just under 8" and my males just under 7". Eastern hermanns tortoises have a "horn" or olive-yellow ground color with dark brown to black markings on the carapace. The plastron's ground color is the same and they have either faded or sharp black blotches on each scute. In this subspecies the seam of the pectoral scutes is larger than that of the seam of the femoral scutes. In the western form this is completely opposite. T. hermanni boetgerri also exhibits a boxier head than that of T. hermanni hermanni. Overall this subspecies is the less colorful of the two and in most wild caught individuals they appear "washed out" or faded while the western hermanns tortoise is very bold in color.
Generally if you see a Hermanns Tortoise for sale anywhere on the internet in the US, it is almost definitley an EASTERN. Westerns are very uncommon in our country and very hard to come by. If you hear someone say otherwise, they most likely do not know what they have. Many, many people think they have westerns....they simply do not. Some do, but it's more than usually someone who is very experienced in these tortoises.

The Western Hermanns Tortoise (Testudo hermanni hermanni) is the nominant race of the hermanns tortoise. It is the smaller of the two and in certain localities (like some in Italy) it is referred to as the "Dwarf" hermanns tortoise. T. hermanni hermanni is restricted to Italy, France and a tiny bit of Spain. These tortoises only reach 5 to6" for females and 4 to 5" for males. Again there are exceptions to the rule but they are not common. This tortoise is in most cases striking in appearance. The ground color is a rich gold to bright yellow and the carapacial markings are JET black. They are much more solid in design and not so variant like in the eastern form. The 5th vetebral scute sports a "keyhole" symbol. This is very clear in this subspecies and while the easterns do show this characteristic as well, it is not as well defined and is much wider. In the western hermanns tortoise it literally looks like you can stick a key into the back of it. In both subspecies the suprecaudal shield is devided (in some easterns it is not) and this was once thought to be the distinguishing factor in the two. It no longer is. T. hermanni hermanni has a more "snake-like" head and isn't as boxy as in T. hermanni boetgerri. This tortoise also features a bright yellow spot or patch behind each eye. Again easterns have this too but it is not so bright.
On the plastron of the western hermanns tortoise, they have 2 jet black bands running longitudinally down to the cloaca. This is very prominant in these tortoises and it is what they are most well know for. Easterns may have this too so beware.
The eyes of T. hermanni hermanni are smaller in appearance when compared to T. hermanni boetgerri.

All in all The Western Hermanns Tortoise is much more colorful than the Eastern (although some captive bred specimens can be stunning in the easterns as well) and it is much smaller. It is a rarer tortoise and every so often you will see a breeder or dealer selling them....they are close to never the real thing. George Ullmann of Turtle World in Aracadia Florida breeds true westerns in fact 1 male and 3 females I have came from him. A good rule of thumb to go by is: If it's being sold for only $125 and it's a hatchling....IT'S AN EASTERN. Hatchling T. hermanni hermanni go for atleast $250 each and sub adults go for $400 or more. Easterns are cheaper by ateast $100 to $200.

Here is the link to some diagrams I made a few months ago:
http://forums.shelledwarriors.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=264

Here is the link to my personal photos of my animals I keep:
http://community.webshots.com/user/loon1103

Hope all this helps and if you ever have any questions please do not hesitate to message me.
-Chris
asafersound@hotmail.com

Thanks for such a full explanation! I'd seen your material on Shelled Warriors, but I'm grateful for a link to your web page too, as there are some really good photos of different species there.

Nina

No problem! I'm always here to help.

Thanks for the great amount of info Chris. I will have to look closely at my Hermann's. They do have the two long dark black marks on the plastron but I will have to check the other features.

If you can send me pics of them, I can tell you what they are right away.