Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Received an e-mail from my wife that said my easterns are hatching. Wow! that's quick! My cal king laid her eggs well before my large Eastern did, but the Easterns are hatching already?!?! Anyone else ever have hatches in less days for eastern kings?
Only 49 days - that's a first for me. Both parents were quite large. The female a thick 4.5 footer, and the male a five footer easy. Hopefully I'll get pics from the wife soon - I'm currently oveseas. Here's a pic of the breeding pair (both are wildcaught from within 12 miles from my house, here in SE. North Carolina):

Zee

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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

That is a handsome pair!
Love the high white - jet black colors
Real nice chain patterns too!

Put me down for babies!

>> SE. North Carolina...

Is that anywhere near Simpsonville?
I caught a stunning black&white thin chain female near there several years ago. She was a [bleep]! Wife hated her so, I let her go right where she came from.

Regards,

John D
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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"

Thanks! These two came from (male) Cumberland county and
(female) Robeson county - but only about 11 miles apart. And not too far from the Cape Fear river.
I'll e-mail you later -

Zee
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

Mine started to pip at 48 and all were out by 50 I think this year.
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

www.crimsonking.funtigo.com

That's only cause you live in TAMPA (always warm there)!!! Ok, just kidding - unless you don't have AC, lol!
But shoot, I wish I lived there!!! YES, I LOVE THUNDERSTORMS!!!
Most of my kings in the past usually hatched from 55-65 days after being laid.
With an early hatch date could that mean that I'll have more females than males?

Zee
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

They're gonna be screamers, without a doubt.

Thanks J - I hope my wife gets better at using my camera soon!!!
I can't wait to see em myself. She said 7 out of 14 were already out of the egg.

Zee
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

Zee,

I sent you an email reply to your last email.

Did you get it?

Let me know...
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Peter Jolles
East Coast Colubrids
www.eastcoastcolubrids.com

Sorry for the slow response. Yes, I got your e-mail. I'll e-mail you later - thanks.

Zee
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

Hey Zee,I hatched some eastern milks this year at 37 days.

Zee, I read FR's post a little while ago about how he sets his female snakes up with a large cage and a natural setting to lay eggs. Consequently (presumably) his snakes lay their eggs with 3 to 5 days of their pre-lay shed.

Hmmm...

I started thinking about that and the fact that my snakes lay their eggs usually 15 to 20 days after they undergo the pre-lay shed (and all I give them is a see-through hide box with spaghum moss). These same eggs (ALL of my kingsnake eggs) usually hatch within 49 to 52 days of oviposition. I always thought that snake eggs (colubrids anyway) take 60 to 65 days to hatch. I wonder if it might be more accurate to measure the hatch date from the date of copulation (????). I am guessing that the eggs are developing in the female from the date of conception, and the real "hatch date" is best calculated from that and not from the date they are deposited by the female.

I wonder how long FR's eggs take to hatch... Could prove my theory correct or wrong. How long did this female go from her pre-lay shed to oviposition?

I am very curious about this.
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Peter Jolles
East Coast Colubrids
www.eastcoastcolubrids.com

Your theory is interesting and something to consider. I would like to test it because I was thinking that the eggs could also be fertilized when the female shells the eggs just before laying them. If the females hold sperm it could be that they can breed whenever a male is available and hold sperm until ovulation at which time she ferilizes just before laying. That would maximize efficiency because if conditions are not right they can also resorb the eggs. But I like your theory too, I guess didn't think of that.
Cheers,
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Jason L. Dobry
Research Associate
College of Veterinary Medicine
Department of Veterinary Comparative Anatomy, Pharmacology and Physiology
Washington State University

Yes - that makes sense because I guess that the eggs are not necessarily fertilized immediately after copulation.
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Peter Jolles
East Coast Colubrids
www.eastcoastcolubrids.com

On thing I would like to try -

Female that is double HET for albinism and lavender.
Can be produced by mating albino with lavender.

Breed her with a male albino that is NOT het for lavender.
After she clutches, double clutch her with a male lavender that is NOT het for albino.

Keep that up for as many years as possible, and see how often she has lavender offspring from the albino mating (retention of sperm over brumation) and albino offspring from the lavender mating (retention of sperm from first mating of season).

It would be interesting to see how often sperm is retained, and while it would be impossible without DNA testing to know who fathered the normals, they wouldn't need to be used to calculate percentage of eggs from retained sperm (since she's HET both would produce about half normal but het).

Of course, doing the experiment with a single female would not say anything about the population in general, and it also would not indicate WHEN fertilization occurred.

The males would also need to be tested to make sure they are not HET for the other male's morph.
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3.0 WC; 0.2 CB L. getula californiae
0.1 WC; 10 eggs (7/11) Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata

Northern Alligator Lizard and Southern Alligator Lizard are very closely related. One lays eggs, other is live bearing. Hatchlings are about the same size.

I would suspect that the northern alligator lizard would not retain sperm for too long after mating, anyone know off hand how they compare as far as mating to young timespan?

They aren't snakes let alone kingsnakes, but maybe it would shed some light on this.
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3.0 WC; 0.2 CB L. getula californiae
0.1 WC; 10 eggs (7/11) Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata

of BOTH species. And I can tell you that the female Northerns carry their eggs much longer than Southerns. Probably mainly due to the full development time frame AND the cooler climate where they are from (in most cases). The southerns lay there eggs usually in June. The Norhterns I've had, didn't give birth until around early to mid September!

Zee
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

That's what I thought. I've had northerns give birth, but never from captive mating.

Anyway, that would seem to indicate that fertilization occurs before shelling, at least with Alligator Lizards - so I would guess that's the case with kingsnakes as well.

I know some people here (FR?) have mentioned opening up roak kill gravid snakes before, maybe they could shed some light?
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3.0 WC; 0.2 CB L. getula californiae
0.1 WC; 10 eggs (7/11) Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata

>>Received an e-mail from my wife that said my easterns are hatching. Wow! that's quick! My cal king laid her eggs well before my large Eastern did, but the Easterns are hatching already?!?! Anyone else ever have hatches in less days for eastern kings?
>>Only 49 days - that's a first for me. Both parents were quite large. The female a thick 4.5 footer, and the male a five footer easy. Hopefully I'll get pics from the wife soon - I'm currently oveseas. Here's a pic of the breeding pair (both are wildcaught from within 12 miles from my house, here in SE. North Carolina):
>>
>>Zee
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-
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Hopefully I'll get some REAL soon!!! 7 out of 14 are already out of the egg.

Zee
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

They came out more distended with yolk than any other kings I've ever hatched.

Will

Intersting, Will. Usually at my place with temps generally 84-86 degrees it has taken them from 55 to 65 days (the past 20 some years . . .)

Zee
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-