Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi!

I would like to ask for ID of snake on photo. It looks like Elaphe guttata but could it be Elaphe obsoleta?

Thanks!

Don't hold me to it, because the picture's blurry & small, but it looks like a corn snake to me. That'd be Pantherophis guttata guttata. And either way- general consensus is that Pantherophis was the replacement for Elaphe a while back.

>>Don't hold me to it, because the picture's blurry & small, but it looks like a corn snake to me. That'd be Pantherophis guttata guttata. And either way- general consensus is that Pantherophis was the replacement for Elaphe a while back.

I will have to agree.
It looks like an amelanistic corn snake to me.
but it is Pantherophis guttatus
sorry just thought you would like to know
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

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That is most likely an amel Corn Snake Elaphe guttata guttata, probably a reverse Oketee.

No offense intended but, the genus Panterophis is neither generally accepted nor supportable.

If you check out the CNAH page, you will find they still use Elaphe for the common North American Ratsnkes - But, they have butchered the species names. So there is no general agreement, even amongst the scientists.

This whole idea that that we should redefine what we call things based on molecular biology has yet to prove itself legitimate or useful. For one thing, there are a lot of field guides out there that are suddenly obsolete, or are they? Phenetipic taxonomy is long established, reliable, and verifiable by anyone competent to use an identification key.

If we are to define species based on mtDNA, then of what use is Conant and Collins, or Tennant, or Stebbins? Are we to carry around a pocket electrophorisis meter so we can tell Elaphe alleghaniensis (Eastern Ratsnake) from Elaphe obsoleta (Western Ratsnake)? The whole concept flies in the face of common sense and what we see with our own eyes. They are both the Black Ratsnake Elaphe obsoleta obsoleta, nothing more, nothing less.

Long Live the Corn Snake - Elaphe guttata guttata!

JPD
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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"
0.1 Black Rat (WV Rescue) "Roberta"

>>That is most likely an amel Corn Snake Elaphe guttata guttata, probably a reverse Oketee.
>>
>>No offense intended but, the genus Panterophis is neither generally accepted nor supportable.
>>
>>If you check out the CNAH page, you will find they still use Elaphe for the common North American Ratsnkes - But, they have butchered the species names. So there is no general agreement, even amongst the scientists.
>>
>>This whole idea that that we should redefine what we call things based on molecular biology has yet to prove itself legitimate or useful. For one thing, there are a lot of field guides out there that are suddenly obsolete, or are they? Phenetipic taxonomy is long established, reliable, and verifiable by anyone competent to use an identification key.
>>
>>If we are to define species based on mtDNA, then of what use is Conant and Collins, or Tennant, or Stebbins? Are we to carry around a pocket electrophorisis meter so we can tell Elaphe alleghaniensis (Eastern Ratsnake) from Elaphe obsoleta (Western Ratsnake)? The whole concept flies in the face of common sense and what we see with our own eyes. They are both the Black Ratsnake Elaphe obsoleta obsoleta, nothing more, nothing less.
>>
>>Long Live the Corn Snake - Elaphe guttata guttata!
>>
>>JPD

It is highly unlikely they could ever get it right but... I am supportive of the separation of new world and old world rat snakes.
New world rat snakes and king snakes are more closely related then the new world and old world elaphes.
oh well
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

_____

Thanks Jimmy

>>It is highly unlikely they could ever get it right but... I am supportive of the separation of new world and old world rat snakes.

I can buy that. Doesn't mean that Elaphe is invalid for NA rats. And I certainly do not buy Pantherophis - not based on one paper by some Russian who may or may not know a Gulf Hummock from a Grey!

>>New world rat snakes and king snakes are more closely related then the new world and old world elaphes.

Must be, otherwise where do all those king/rat/pit hybrids come from? Think anyone's tried to hybridize NW and OW rats? I bet Leopard X Corn would look pretty cool.

>>oh well

Indeed. These days prevailing wisdom, or at least the most PC wisdom, is that everything has to be divided up according to evolutionary theory. Molecular biochemisty is used to justify this trend. However not all scientists agree with this approach. Not all scientists buy Global Warming either, but one wouldn't know that from the information we are fed.

I think we can wait 20 years and it'll all be revised again. Think they'll tell us that all ratsnakes are decendants of one female who lived in Africa 3 million yers ago? That's what the mtDNA guys would have us believe about humans.

Like I said before, it just doesn't pass the commonsense test.

Gimmie an E!
Gimmie an L!
Gimmie an A!
Gimmie an P!
Gimmie an H!
Gimmie an E!

ELAPHE!

Regards,

John
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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"
0.1 Black Rat (WV Rescue) "Roberta"