Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've been really admiring the Baird's and the Trans Pecos ratsnakes. Just wondering, for pet quality, which has the best temperament? I've heard that TransPecos can be nippy. Really like those silver ones!
Thank you!
Beth

Both are super animals!
Much depends on your level of experience and resources.

IMHO My vote would be for captive born Bairds.
They are:
Hardy,
Inexpensive,
Readily available,
Not picky feeders,
Grow to a manageable size,
Breed readily (sometimes a little too readily),
Great colors,
very docile after a little handling, etc.

There are several great contributers on this forum who can show pictures of some gorgeous animals.
(OK Jimmy Draybar, here's you queue, son!)
-----
Regards, Bill McGighan

Where you live is also a consideration. If your climate tends towards high humidity (such as the southeast US), trans pecos can be tough to keep since they thrive in low humidity. Bairds seem to be less sensitive to humidity levels.

rgds,
althea

They tie in temperament, IMO.

I wouldn't consider Trans-Pecos to be any "nippier" than any other ratsnake species. In fact, if you read any of the literature on them, even wild ones are usually described as being uncommonly docile.
There are exceptions, of course.

I agree with Bill that Baird's are probably more of the "pet snake" type than subocs (in terms of ease of care and breeding). One of the main reasons for this is that most bairdi grow faster and eat more often (and quantities) than TPRSs do, making them mature sooner than subocs.

Subocs have their perks too. They are very inquisitive and responsive.

It's almost a matter of what you prefer.

Happy snake choosing!

Dusty

Suboc.com

...but what are the feeding differences you are referring to? I am taking a serious interest in N. American Rat Snakes, and both of these species are on my Christmas list. Any info is always welcome!

Thanks,
-----
Diego

Diego & Tiffany's Zoo:
SNAKES
3.4 Corn Snakes (Different morphs)
1.0.0 Boa Constrictor
0.1.0 Dumeril's Boa
1.1.0 Rosy Boas (Mexican & Mid Baja)
1.1.0 Kenyan Sand Boas
0.1.0 Indonesian Dwarf Pacific Boa
0.1.0 Tangerine Honduran Milksnake
1.0.0 Honduran Milksnake
0.1.0 Pueblan Milksnake
1.2.0 Ball Pythons
1.0.0 Woma Python
1.1.0 Cape York Spotted Pythons
1.1.0 Macklot's Pythons
0.0.1 Ribbon Snake
1.0.0 Western Hognose
1.0.0 Albino San Diego Gopher Snake
0.0.1 Sonoran Gopher Snake
0.1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake
1.1.0 Gray Banded Kingsnakes (River Road)
0.1.1 California Kingsnakes
1.0.0 Yellowtail Cribo
0.1.0 Blacktail Cribo

LIZARDS
1.0.0 Frilled Dragon
3.1.0 Bearded Dragons (2 Normal, 1 RedXGold, 1 Citrus)
0.1.0 Eastern Collared Lizard
0.1.0 Merauke Blue Tongue Skink
2.3.0 Leopard Geckos
1.1.0 Yellow Niger Uromastyx
0.1.0 Green Anoles
FROGS
2.2.0 Southern Bell Frogs
1.0.1 Green Tree Frogs
0.0.2 Striped Walking Frogs
1.1.1 White's Tree Frogs

Hi, Diego.

Captive-bred subocs and bairdi are both good feeders on mice.

The main difference is that bairdi eat more like cornsnakes (aka often and any size). Subocs often eat only once a week or less. Subocs also sometimes prefer smaller mice.

If it's more important to you to breed a ratsnake quick (within two or three years), then go with a bairdi. A female suboc should be around 4 years old before breeding, and a male should be around 2-3 years old.

Thank you, Dusty.

I am interested in breeding, but I am in no hurry. If you look below, you'll see that I have plenty of projects to keep me occupied in the meantime!

I plan on getting both species. I have been looking at Mexican Baird's (love the deep earth colors with the silver head). As far as Suboc's, sure the blondes and silvers are beautiful, but there's just something about the "normals" that can't be beat. I've also seen a W/C red phase that's just out of this world!

Thanks again for the info.

P.S.

My girlfriend wants to know if you used to wrestle...
-----
Diego

Diego & Tiffany's Zoo:
SNAKES
3.4 Corn Snakes (Different morphs)
1.0.0 Boa Constrictor
0.1.0 Dumeril's Boa
1.1.0 Rosy Boas (Mexican & Mid Baja)
1.1.0 Kenyan Sand Boas
0.1.0 Indonesian Dwarf Pacific Boa
0.1.0 Tangerine Honduran Milksnake
1.0.0 Honduran Milksnake
0.1.0 Pueblan Milksnake
1.2.0 Ball Pythons
1.0.0 Woma Python
1.1.0 Cape York Spotted Pythons
1.1.0 Macklot's Pythons
0.0.1 Ribbon Snake
1.0.0 Western Hognose
1.0.0 Albino San Diego Gopher Snake
0.0.1 Sonoran Gopher Snake
0.1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake
1.1.0 Gray Banded Kingsnakes (River Road)
0.1.1 California Kingsnakes
1.0.0 Yellowtail Cribo
0.1.0 Blacktail Cribo

LIZARDS
1.0.0 Frilled Dragon
3.1.0 Bearded Dragons (2 Normal, 1 RedXGold, 1 Citrus)
0.1.0 Eastern Collared Lizard
0.1.0 Merauke Blue Tongue Skink
2.3.0 Leopard Geckos
1.1.0 Yellow Niger Uromastyx
0.1.0 Green Anoles
FROGS
2.2.0 Southern Bell Frogs
1.0.1 Green Tree Frogs
0.0.2 Striped Walking Frogs
1.1.1 White's Tree Frogs

Yeah...I hear you on the Nuevo Leon bairdi...those orange/yellow bodies with silver heads are beautiful.

Just so happens that my first (and favorite) TPRS is a LTC straw-colored "normal" from the River Road. He is a big old brute, nearly 5 ft. and is as handsome and gentle a serpent as any I've ever seen.

The normals were the first to win me over too, although I do like the blondes (I'm a sucker for naturally occuring morphs of many species), silvers and albinos. Bogeys are beautiful in any paint job, as far as I'm concerned.

Where did you see the red phased animal? Have a pic?

Here is a golden-orange "Oro del Rio" phased animal with a straw-yellowish animal of the same age.

Take care!

Dusty

Suboc.com

Dusty,

Beautiful snakes! The Red Phase I saw was in an earlier post here on KS by Max Peterson. I just looked it up, but the pic's gone...bummer. Yup, that's what got me thinking about the Suboc's in the first place.

Thanks for your time and all the info!
-----
Diego

Diego & Tiffany's Zoo:
SNAKES
3.4 Corn Snakes (Different morphs)
1.0.0 Boa Constrictor
0.1.0 Dumeril's Boa
1.1.0 Rosy Boas (Mexican & Mid Baja)
1.1.0 Kenyan Sand Boas
0.1.0 Indonesian Dwarf Pacific Boa
0.1.0 Tangerine Honduran Milksnake
1.0.0 Honduran Milksnake
0.1.0 Pueblan Milksnake
1.2.0 Ball Pythons
1.0.0 Woma Python
1.1.0 Cape York Spotted Pythons
1.1.0 Macklot's Pythons
0.0.1 Ribbon Snake
1.0.0 Western Hognose
1.0.0 Albino San Diego Gopher Snake
0.0.1 Sonoran Gopher Snake
0.1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake
1.1.0 Gray Banded Kingsnakes (River Road)
0.1.1 California Kingsnakes
1.0.0 Yellowtail Cribo
0.1.0 Blacktail Cribo

LIZARDS
1.0.0 Frilled Dragon
3.1.0 Bearded Dragons (2 Normal, 1 RedXGold, 1 Citrus)
1.1.0 Eastern Collared Lizard
0.1.0 Merauke Blue Tongue Skink
2.3.0 Leopard Geckos
1.0.1 Yellow Niger Uromastyx
FROGS
2.2.0 Southern Bell Frogs
1.0.1 Green Tree Frogs
1.1.0 Striped Walking Frogs
1.1.1 White's Tree Frogs

I like 'em both and as soon as the weather cools I will have both! Hurry Jimmy! LOL! I have a w.c. '05 female T.P. and an unknown age w.c. male but I'd guess he's 10-12 'cause he's 68" long! He is very responsive and curious, she is a little shy but never refuses a meal. Lookin' forward to tryin' out the bairdi's! Both great snakes, in my opinion.
Todd Hughes

>>I've been really admiring the Baird's and the Trans Pecos ratsnakes. Just wondering, for pet quality, which has the best temperament? I've heard that TransPecos can be nippy. Really like those silver ones!
>>Thank you!
>>Beth

I can not speak for Subocs except to say they eceptionaly beautiful snakes but I cane tell you my opinions of bairds rat snakes...

I hate them...

LOL, just kidding.
Love 'em

Bairds rat snakes grow to be beautiful adults. Beautiful!
They are easy to care for. No different then corns or obsoletas.
They eat like champs.
They are fairly active so they make good display snakes.
They get to a decent size but are not too big to be a problem.
They can sometimes start out a little nervous (but can't most snakes?) but with regular handling they tame out just as well as any corn snake. In my opinion more so then most obsoletas I have had.
Not to cast a bad light on obsoletas or insinuate they don't calm down. It is just that in my experience the bairdis aren't as likely to surprise me along the line.
Bairdis are also inexpensive. I would guess a littler cheaper then Subocs.
So, enjoy whichever species you choose and be sure to share your choice.

-----
Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

_____

>>>>>>_____
-----
Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

_____

Sorry about the typos above...
I had our little "stray" cat, Scooter, in my lap.
He was a little stray that was hanging around the house.
He was a cool little guy and seemingly unaffected by other animals.
If we opened the door he would just "scoot" right in and make himself at home.
He wasn't bothered by the dogs, or the other cats, and they accepted him as if he had always been there.
We have 8 cats, all indoors, and five dogs and we didn't want to take a chance that our little stray buddy might get sick and pass something on to our cats or our neighbor's cats and we obviously couldn't call the humane society on him, so we took him to the vet to get all of his shots, to be wormed and checked for feline leukemia..etc etc.
A week later we took him to be neutered.
This is where it gets pretty cool.
When I went to pick him up the afternoon he was neutered, I got one hell of a surprise.
I walked in and said I was there to pick up Scooter.
They said, Ok....wait a minute.
Hmmm?
Then a tech came out of the back carrying what appeared to be my bill.
I was wondering if I should run now or wait...lol
Then she walked up she said..."your bill has been paid"
I obviously didn't believe her.
But after a few minutes of...
"For Real?".."Yes"..."Really?".."Yes".."NOOO?".."YES"...etc..etc...etc I was finally convinced.
They explained they have an occaisional visitor they call the Cat Angel.
It would seem this person likes to stop by the vet's office and pay "cat" bills for people.
The Cat Angel thought we deserved help because we were paying to have a stray cat neutered and vaccinated.
So...the bill truly was paid.
Although Scooter does enjoy the outdoors, he is also welcome in our house at all times...lol

Sorry for this seriously off topic rambling but I thought the story of Scooter was worth telling.

-----
Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

_____

That is a wonderful story, thanks for sharing!

I need a Snake Angel!

Hope Scooter is well.

Cheers!

John D
-----
I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"
0.1 Black Rat (WV Rescue) "Roberta"

That is one beautiful snake!!! I want one just like it!!! Which local would be the lighter colored animals?
Thank you!
Beth

>>That is one beautiful snake!!! I want one just like it!!! Which local would be the lighter colored animals?
>>Thank you!
>>Beth

I do not know the locale of my bairdis so I am unable to help you there.
-----
Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

_____

Just beautiful!
Todd Hughes

As a very happy owner of a Bairdi from Jimmy, I very much agree

My little one is beautiful, healthy, eats like a piglet, and is growing fast. We love her to bits

-----
4.0 yellow rat snake
1.1 ball python
0.1 speckled king
1.0 Honduran milk
0.0.2 rough green snake
1.1 diamondback terrapin
1.0 Malayan box turtle

>>As a very happy owner of a Bairdi from Jimmy, I very much agree
>>
>>My little one is beautiful, healthy, eats like a piglet, and is growing fast. We love her to bits
>>
>>-----

Oh yeah ! what a cutie
Even if I do say so myself....LOL
glad you are happy with her.
-----
Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

_____

>>Beth

I can't speake about suboc's - never owned one.
However, I can state emphatically that Bairds are Excellent!

Everything said above is true.

To top it off they are underrated outside of the herp community, so prices aren't outrageous, plus there are locality varieties, but no confusing morphs, so what you see is what you get.

Here's a couple pics of my big guy to whet your appetite...

Regards,

John D.

-----
I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"
0.1 Black Rat (WV Rescue) "Roberta"

Hi Beth,
I'll have to agree with the rest of the bunch- the Baird's make slightly better captive animals (all of mine over the years have been wild caught, btw) although I wouldn't call either "nippy"...Baird's seem to handle the stresses of captivity somewhat better. They're very interesting animals,eat well, and require fairly minimal enclosures.

Good luck, and enjoy!

Jamie
South Texas

Looks like the Baird's win!!! I have a few corn snakes that I just love, as well as Rosy Boa's and a Pueblan (never see her!), and a Ball Python that will only eat live. So in truth, I'm leaning toward an easy to keep and feed animal, that doesn't mind the occasional handling.
Thank you all for the input!
Beth

I noticed in your post that you were looking for a lighter colored snake. Keep a look out for a Mexican Baird's. They tend to be lighter in coloring.

Below is a Baird's in natural light. You cas see that it is much lighter in coloring then others that have been posted in this thread. Good luck finding your perfect Baird's.

Is that a small snake or a huge spider?!
-----
Diego

Diego & Tiffany's Zoo:
SNAKES
3.4 Corn Snakes (Different morphs)
1.0.0 Boa Constrictor
0.1.0 Dumeril's Boa
1.1.0 Rosy Boas (Mexican & Mid Baja)
1.1.0 Kenyan Sand Boas
0.1.0 Indonesian Dwarf Pacific Boa
0.1.0 Tangerine Honduran Milksnake
1.0.0 Honduran Milksnake
0.1.0 Pueblan Milksnake
1.2.0 Ball Pythons
1.0.0 Woma Python
1.1.0 Cape York Spotted Pythons
1.1.0 Macklot's Pythons
0.0.1 Ribbon Snake
1.0.0 Western Hognose
1.0.0 Albino San Diego Gopher Snake
0.0.1 Sonoran Gopher Snake
0.1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake
1.1.0 Gray Banded Kingsnakes (River Road)
0.1.1 California Kingsnakes
1.0.0 Yellowtail Cribo
0.1.0 Blacktail Cribo

LIZARDS
1.0.0 Frilled Dragon
3.1.0 Bearded Dragons (2 Normal, 1 RedXGold, 1 Citrus)
1.1.0 Eastern Collared Lizard
0.1.0 Merauke Blue Tongue Skink
2.3.0 Leopard Geckos
1.0.1 Yellow Niger Uromastyx
FROGS
2.2.0 Southern Bell Frogs
1.0.1 Green Tree Frogs
1.1.0 Striped Walking Frogs
1.1.1 White's Tree Frogs

That is a Baird's spider. They are a little easier to feed and breed than a Trans Pecos spider. j/k

Nice observation. I didn't notice until I saw your post.

I haven't been around many of these animals, but the TPs I've dealt with were definitely very inquisitive animals, or their behavior made me think that. Really neat snakes. I say go for those!

I love my Bairdi, but I also would like a Trans Pecos someday.

Whenever I am faced with choices like this, the answer usually is, "BOTH!"
-----
3.0 yellow rat snake
1.0 Everglades rat snake
0.1 Baird's rat snake
1.1 ball python
0.1 speckled king
0.1 Eastern milk
1.0 Honduran milk
0.0.2 rough green snake
1.1 diamondback terrapin
1.0 Malayan box turtle

Hmmm... you just might be right there!!! Both would be good!
Thanks for the input!
Beth

However, I also caution you to look at your cages to make sure that they have enough ventilation and your area to check for levels of humidity. Both my bairds and transpecos did not do well (they both actually died), due to higher levels of humidity and I also believe lack of adequate ventilation in their cages. I will not get any more snakes that are that dependent on low humidity and expect them to live in our area of high humidity.
-----
phflame
kingsnake.com host

Bairds are the better I would say. Eddy