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Looking for thoughts on spinal kinks...

pweaver Aug 14, 2006 12:55 PM

I only had a small clutch of 4 Eastern eggs this year. I kept them at a constant temp of 75-76 degrees as it was said on this forum that temps about 80 can produce spinal kinks. Three of the four eggs hatched fine, but the fourth slit it's egg but never emerged. I cut the egg open to find a dead baby with horrible spinal kinks/deformities over it's entire body.

Given that I kept my temps on the low side, never having gone above 76, does anyone have any thoughts on what else might have caused such a severe deformity?
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Paul Weaver
Carolina Herps

Replies (4)

epidemic Aug 14, 2006 04:40 PM

There are two camps regarding the cause of spinal kinks. Some believe such are genetic a trait, while others believe the cause can be found in incorrect incubation temperatures.Unfortunately, there is not a great deal of empirical data to back either camp.
It has been noted, the surface temperatures of eggs during incubation is often 2-3*F higher than the ambient temperature of the incubation chamber and such would indicate the core egg temperature would be even greater. The increased egg temperature can be attributed to the great amount of energy consumed during embryonic development, as heat is the by product of energy use.
Personally, I try to keep Drymarchon eggs in the lower 70’s, preferably an overall average of 73* F and have incurred no problems when I am able to maintain such temperatures. Unfortunately, such was not the case this year, as home remodeling and record heat made the maintenance of low temperatures throughout the incubation period impossible this year and the majority of my eggs were lost due to such. In my case, several pipped, only to retreat back into the egg where they promptly died, while the rest never pipped and I too opened all of the eggs to find perfectly developed babies dead within, though none harbored spinal anomalies. In my case, the temperatures did not spike until two – three weeks prior to pipping, so they were already developed and the heat acted to dissipate the oxygen within the eggs, causing the babies to die of asphyxiation. Still very difficult to think about, as there are few things more disheartening then to open so many eggs to find perfectly developed babies dead within.

Best regards,

Jeff
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Jeff Snodgres
University of Arkansas
snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
501.603.1947

steve fuller Aug 14, 2006 08:21 PM

After taking every step to breed, incubate, and hatch indigos it's certainly disappointing to have less than perfect live hatchlings. Mother Fingers, a female that produced three good hatchlings this year with three other seemingly good eggs going bad early produced four hatchlings last year. Two of those were severely kinked with one also being bifurcated. Last year I worked at keeping the temps in the low 70's. This year I didn't. They sometimes went over 80 degrees F. but never for more than a day or so. I do agree with others that lower incubating temps, while taking longer for eggs to hatch, does lead to larger, more robust hatchlings.

One breeder has told me that he can get good fertile clutches with one male mating with three different females two times apiece. Another has suggested that the key to getting clutches that are completely fertile may be having multiple males breed with one female.

At any rate, even as folks still have clutches hatching this month, it's hard not to think ahead to November and how well things will go in the upcoming breeding season. Two young female Easterns, Sister Fingers and Michelle of Ohio, will be ready to go. Skink, my younger male, will be with Sister Fingers first. Mullet Fingers, my older male, will be with Michelle. I plan to alternate them a few times after that. Mother Fingers will be left alone this year. Sister Skink should be ready in another year.

Jeff, I'm sorry for the setback you had this year. You've worked hard to establish a solid rubidus population in the U.S. I finally acquired a pair recently, one of your 05 females and an unrelated male. They were not in good shape, but should come around.

dan felice Aug 15, 2006 03:33 AM

my cribo eggs have always taken right around 115 days [mid march to early july] to hatch each year @ temps hovering in the mid 70's. one nice advantage of this i've noticed is that the babies are fairly burly @ birth making their heads somewhat bigger [esp. the males] which in turn makes assist feeding them that much easier. :>] shown below is a cb 03 female uni that eventually didn't make the cut. she had 6 black neck slashes on each side!

dan felice Aug 15, 2006 03:38 AM

a super clean unrelated 03 female.......

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